California Pinot Noir or French Burgundy for under $25

Depending on the extras in the salad, you might want to also consider a CA Zin. See earlier thread re: chocolate v red wine. A footnote to that thread, I find that with the right chocolate, a Merlot (mentioned as having similar flavor profile to chocolate, but in that post not recommended), especially if the chocolate has raspberries, or the right Zin go well. However, I also like a nice demi-sec Champagne, so "go figure." As for the PN's, I kinda' wonder how they might hold up to this list. Just thinking here...

Hunt

Well, I'm not sure where you are located --- but if you are looking for intense, concentrated pinot I would suggest trying to find the 2002 Kali Hart. This is a Monterey County California pinot produced by Talbott. Whereas the normal California pinots in that price range (Schug, Acacia, Saintsbury) are silky and elegant, this one is penetratingly concentrated. But it's pretty well balanced if slightly unusual.

Mike P

Had all the mentioned C Coast PN's, but have not had the Kali Hart. Sounds interesting. I'm off to find it in AZ. Otherwise, I'll have to wait for my next trip to C Coast.

Thanks, Hunt

Skip the wine with the salad. That just won't work.

I don't know where you live, but the 2001 BV "Rutherford" Cabernet comes in comfortably below $25 most places in the US, and it'll be nice with the filet.

I'd opt for coffee with the souffle. If you must have something else, try port or maybe Frangelico.

Tom S

I was reading an article just the other day about wine and chocolate.

They suggested a Rutherglen (Northern Victoria, Australia) muscat or tokay.

Specifically Campbells Rutherglen Tokay 375ml rrp AU$19.50.

All Saints Grand Rutherglen Muscat 375ml rrp AU$59.

I usually find that I can find wines recommended in the paper for at least a few dollars less than the quoted price in various shops. Bare in mind exchange, transportation costs etc.

The Rutherglen region is renowned for tokay and muscat.

The article also mentioned sweet sherry, a specific recommendation being the Spanish Hidalgo Napolean Pedro Ximenez Viejo, AU$36.

I'm sure you could find something similar to those mentioned above for less than US$25. We're getting about 80 cents US to the AU$ at the moment.

Mat,

I would be one of the greatest fans of Rutherglen fortifieds - I first visited the area in the '70s when it was a real backwater (with no water!!) and am on record in this forum expounding the virtues of these amazing wines.

In Ian and Dales report(s) on dining on ECUS they commented upon the Rutherglen Chambers Rosewood Muscadelle; I am familiar with this and the full range of Campbell's wines (including his premium Merchant Price) together with offerings from Morris, All Saints et al.

But, I simply cannot agree that either the Muscat or the Muscadelle (Tokay) is a good match with chocolate.

I know that you are only reporting on someone else's article, but, imnsho (and experience) the writer "got it wrong" both in suggested the Rutherglen fortifieds of the PX sherry.

I am with those who state that chocolate is very *very* difficult to match.

That's fair enough.

It was Ralph Kyte-Powell who has been around the block and back again, though he is still ~40ish I think. So I don't believe he is a total hack. I've seen some of his TV and writings, and though he writes a lot for low-brow audiences, he does for the most part appear to have a reasonable grasp. Best to provide some background info I guess.

He said chocolate was hard to match, but you need something very sweet, strongly flavoured, high in alcohol and lush in texture to match chocolate.

He did say Campbells: lighter chocolate dishes. Hidalgo: coffee and after-dinner chocolates. All Saints: chocolate cake.

My [very limited] instinct would tell me chocolate is very hard to match, however something very sweet and thick. Even perhaps kahlua or frangellico [think this was suggested by someone else]. In fact coffee would probably be the best thing, although I don't drink coffee unfortunately.

I'll agree with this. The subject line asks about CA PN or Burg (dunno where in the US one finds Burg under $25, however.)

The spinach salad usually connotes some sort of vinaigrette or maybe a brown sugar style dressing--not very wine friendly. The Filet Mignon wants a Cab, but can do well with Zin or Merlot, but PN is a bit too light in my opinion for hearty beef. And, the chocolate souffle brings both chocolate and eggs, neither of which are going to work with pinot noir.

I think I would try Zinfandel, if I absolutely needed to tack a single varietal to the meal. A lighter, drier Zinfandel such as Renwood Amador County offerings for the main meal and then a "late-picked" such as Ridge Dusi Ranch or Paso Robles, which are heavier and more "portly".

Avoiding red throughout, then I think maybe something white and crisp with the spinach salad (depending upon the dressing) like Pinot Grigio, then cabernet sauvignon with the main course and a nice demi-sec Champagne or Prosecco with the dessert course.

Ed Rasimus Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret) "When Thunder Rolled"

Have pity on my prejudices, (I'm half hungarian) and call a spade ."a spade" not "a bloody shovel". Tokay comes from Hungary, while the name of the grape from which Campbell makes an excellent wine is Muscadelle, which we commented on recently after drinking it with chocolate (me) and a walnut cake (Ewan). It went well, as (to comment on Bill's remark/question) it wasn't spoilt by the match.

I feel that for the best dark strong choccy matches you need something REALLY dark & sticky. I'd suggest looking to a gooey liqueur muscat/muscadelle from Rutherglen as you say, or a PX sticky from Malaga even. French chauvinists swear that Banyuls is as good as anything with chocolate. I'm unconvinced. I agree with MP that an old style Tokaji aszu

6 putts goes well too, the more citrussy modern styles like Disznoko or Oremus have too much balancing acidity IMO.

all the best

Ian (the pedant)

Hello Ian,

You can call a spade a green martian if you feel like it.

Um Campbells call it tokay, not muscadelle. Perhaps they should reach an [dis]agreement with Hungary ala the French not to use names like champagne, hermitage [getting phased out I think], burgundy etc etc.

Thankyou for the advice. Mum and Dad have a bottle of tokay / muscadelle I got them as a gift they don't look like drinking anytime soon, so I may have to reposses it and try it with some chocolate. ;-)

Thanks again,

Mat.