Corks, once more ...

Didn't really understand that last bit. But here's what I understand of the situation...

Some wineries are/were indeed "infected" with TCA. ISTR it was due to the use of some insecticide or fungicide. In that case, I agree the term "corked" is inappropriate, but how is the consumer to know the source of the TCA? I guess if you have 3 bad bottles in a row, as I did once in a restaurant, you begin to suspect!

I understand that some suppliers are better than others, and there can be good and bad batches of corks from the same supplier. Some producers check batches before using them. I have never heard names named, but the good producers must be aware of the good and bad sources.

I don't think I have ever seen a detailed explanation of how a cork gets TCA (something to do with fungus and bleach, I know), why some corks get it and others don't, and how it can be prevented from getting into a cork. Can someone help out here?

"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" in news:fonRc.32$ snipped-for-privacy@newsb.telia.net...

I think not! Steve Slatcher already cited the prospect of TCA-prone wineries. Here's an anecdote. Last December I posted some offhand tasting info on an HTML site (WCWN) mentioning one wine in a blind tasting having TCA. Then a wine critic with whom I often taste replied and reminded me of another TCAed bottle from the same vintage and producer in a previous tasting. He added, referring to the producer, "I mentioned this to her when I visited last month and she said that I was the third person that had told her about cork problems with her 2001s and that she was going to switch cork suppliers." Recently in a blind 2002 tasting one of two wines from that same producer had an obvious defect spotted by everyone (though not all agreed it was specifically TCA). This is a producer whose wines are very reputable, and very good in my experience also, when not showing contamination defects.

I have heard other examples like this, bad "runs" from one winery, sometimes attributed to the "cork supplier." A very serious instance in Germany led to recall of one lot of wine not long ago as I remember.

It is logical that if some wineries have bad luck in this way, others will have good ...

Don't forget also the variation in individual sensitivity to TCA even among consumers who know the smell of it. I haven't seen concrete information about this, but I have seen accounts of TCA that some experienced noses don't detect. One restaurateur, addressing TCA defensively, argued that detection by very sensitive noses is a poor criterion for rejecing a bottle that many diners will find acceptable. I think that's an important question and could use more discussion.

-- Max

information

It certainly argues that a decent restaurant should make sure that its sommellier or wine waiter is sensitive to TCA.

Nils, if a winery is affected, this does *not* explain why some bottles of a specific batch are tainted and others not. TCA contamination of a winery is extremely rare, I don't think more than 5 or 6 cases have been known worldwide in the past half century, although there have been two prominent Bordeaux estates among them: Ducru at the beginning of the 1990s and Canon a few years later.

No, cork taint that happens at random (99.99 of all cork taints, imnsho) can *never* be attributed to a contaminated winery.

M.

M.

This opinion is totally unjustified, imnsho, for the simple reason, that less-than obvious cork taints (without TCA smell) show two well-documented phenomenons: "Fruit scalping" and "random oxidation". There is enough research done by the AWRI (Australian Wine Research Institute). Just because one cannot smell TCA does

M.

In 2002 the Wine Spectator discovered that Beaulieu Vineyards had TCA tainted wines from 1997 through 1999 affecting several hundred thousand cases of red wine.

In know. This is one of the 5 or 6 documented cases of a winery affected by TCA I remember.

M.

I second Michael's comments. It has become second nature to me to give a quick sniff to a newly opened bottle of wine. I don't consider the absence of the distinct TCA smell as proof that the wine is _not_ corked. OTH, the clear presence of the smell is, to me anyway, sufficient proof that that it _is_ corked and I don't bother to go any further.

Sometimes I think I detect a whiff of TCA right after the bottle is opened but then can't detect it a few seconds later. Pouring a little wine into a glass, swirling it, and smelling it again may bring out a clear TCA odor. Sometimes there is still uncertainty. When this happens, I will, if possible, solicit the opinions of others, which sometimes vary.

The next step is to open another bottle of the same wine (if I have one) and compare the two. Often the fruit aroma of the second one is clearly superior to the first one, which is proof to me that the first bottle has some kind of fault. Probably corked, but possibly due to something else. If I don't have a second bottle (or maybe decide not to open it if I do) and go ahead and start to consume the first bottle, I will often get part-way through it and decide that there is just not anything there. If it's a wine that I'm familiar with and know that _something_ should be there, I will conclude that the wine is probably corked even though I never detected TCA. If it's a wine that I've never had before, I will consider the possibility that it is just a lousy wine and decide never to buy it (or anything from that winery) again. This is the kind of consumer reaction that gives wineries nightmares.

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

Thank you for putting me right. Concerning your other comments in this thread, I remember Ian Hoare saying that he is not very sensitive to TCA, but, that, he detects, in TCA-tainted wines, a lack of fruit (I apologise to Ian if I misremember his statement). Is this in any way in line with what you stated previously about "fruit scalping"? And, is this caused by the presence of TCA, or are both ordinarily caused by some third, more original fault?

Cannot also barrels, or staves in barrels, be contaminated?

Steve, From all that I've read and heard, there is still a lot of dispute over the source(s) of TCA. Some people claim that it is the product of fungal or bacterial infection; others claim that it results from the use of chlorinated bleaches to sterilize corks or barrels. FWIW, I can draw a plausible reaction mechanism that shows the coversion of lignins (polyphenolics found in wood and cork) to TCA upon contact with a chlorine source.

HTH Mark Lipton

Salut/Hi Nils

le/on Mon, 09 Aug 2004 16:02:19 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

This is a topic that pops up from time to time. If you think about it, an infected winery _can't_ be responsible for maybe a random 5% of tainted bottles, and the chances of a complete case of bottles being tainted by cork borne TCA is infinitesimally low.

Do the calculations. There's about a 1/20 chance of a single bottle being tainted. For a second bottle its a 1/20*1/20 or 1/400. For a third 1/8000, for a fourth 1 in 160k and so on.

For NONE to be tainted, on the other hand, you might be surprised that it's significantly lower than 50:50 .

Actually, I've found that I'm somewhat more sensitive than I thought I was. It's just that as an oeno-necrophile, I'd not opened many bottles corked since the problem became much more serious! But indeed I did say that sometimes I've hod wines which didn't seem to be "showing well", lacking in fruit - or much else either, no noticeable wet dog/cardboard, just under par compared with what I knew the wine to be capable of.

But you've not misrepresented me at all, Nils.

scalping"? And, is this caused by the

I would say that's exactly what he means. And no, it's not a _common cause", it's by all accounts typical of low levels of TCA contamination.

TCA spreads quite freely, so if staves are contaminated, the cask will be immediately. Wood preservatives containing chlorine used on the roof construction have been found guilty in contaminating a whole winery. Another case here in Austria: contaminated wooden palletes have contaminated (although only slightly) not only ony vintage of a given winery, but also other batches of wines since this winery operated bottlings for others.

I once even had deep-fried lamb chops that were completey corked. The guilty was found rapidly: The slice of lemon (commonly served with anything deepfried, from Wiener Schnitzel up and down, here in Austria) had an extremely intense TCA smell. Quite probably it was contaminated in its wooden delivery case which was contaminated.

M.

I too, on 2 separate occasions, have experienced food that tasted "corked".

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link