Plastic corks - UK

What you need is a "synthetic" corks which are about 2ce or 3ce the price of cork "corks" and any good home brew shop will be able to supply. BUT if you use "Favorite" type ordinary corks which are current very good, and use them without soaking, simmering or boiling (-- all quite potentially fatal ) you will probably find an improvement. I have used ordinary cork corks for the last 2 years without any treatment with no noticeable effect on my bottled wines and a lot less problems in the actual corking procedures -- all this having talked to a Portugese cork supplier at length -- mind you he was seling cork corks.

But I have gone through all and every variation of pre bottling cork procedure you can imagine over quite a few years and now I don't worry and use them straight from the pack and have noticed no detrimental effect -- this being qualitative rather than quantative!

Hope that doesn't confuse you too much!

trevor

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Do you just put them in dry then Trevor? My problem seems to be that they go in reasonably OK but when I try to get them out they have stuck to the sides of the bottle neck. The corkscrew then just pulls out the centre of the cork. My husband has just bought me a floor corker which I yet have to try so perhaps putting them in more cleanly may help. Could I smear them with vaseline or something first so they don't stick? A silicone spray??

Is "2ce or 3ce" British English for twice or thrice? If so and you're paying two or three times more for synthetic than natural cork in the UK, you're getting ripped off. Synthetic should be *cheaper* than a decent natural cork.

- Mark W.

mark Sadly my experience in the UK is that synthetic corks are much more expensive than the real corks generally available in UK brew shops -- so we are probably being ripped off! And I dont believe that 2ce and 3ce are an unusual abbreviation for twice and thrice!!!!!!! -- not in british english but in general mathematics parlance. But I did apologise for any confusion in my original post!

Hi, yes I just put them in dry -- but with my Porrtuguese floor corker which I have been using now for nearly 3 years. It is the best buy I have ever made and totally excellent and also very safe!You will see that the response on this NG is very positive on floor corkers and I cannot stress too much ( even if you are a small volume producer of whatever wines you make) what an essential item it is! Do not smear any grease at all on the corker or cork and when finished make sure that you put a couple of plugs of paper kitchen towel through the corker to clean and dry it of any spilt wine. All corks are treated with silicone anyway ( according to my friendly portuguese cork salesman). I really have worried, over too many years, about corking bottles and have suffered inferior corks and I have ruined a fair few batches of corks as well. I am also aware of some bad press with certain types of synthetic corks.

And I suppose now that the "upmarket screwcap bottle" is making inroads in th ewine retail market then next step for home winemakes is to habe a "screwcap former maker" to become available

Sorry for the long diatribe! but that is me!

Apologies for typos etc

Hello there am i right in understanding that when you fit corks into the bottles that you force them in dry. Think of all that friction, i find that its fare better to soak the cork in boiling water first. The enables the cork to become supple and makes the cork fit correctly within the neck of the bottle.

Stephen

And I suppose now that the "upmarket screwcap bottle" is making inroads in th ewine retail market then next step for home winemakes is to habe a "screwcap former maker" to become available

Sorry for the long diatribe! but that is me!

Apologies for typos etc

Supremecorq says the reason they can be hard to get out of the bottle is some people wash the silicone off before inserting, they have to go in dry. If they had laser printing on them, that was a huge iusse too; it seems the print sucked up all the silicone and the rest of the corq was dry; Bully Hill had that issue and was not too thrilled about it. All that said, I only used about 50, they do lose about 10 PPM of free SO2 pretty quickly, so you may want to consider that too. I'm not saying they are an issue, just that they require have a little different processing in use.

I'm comparing Guardian and Nomacork to the agglomerated naturals with a disk of natural at each end this year. At this point they all look good but it's way to early to say I like one above another. All cost roughly the same (too much)...

When buying natural corks, squeeze them between your fingers, if they give a little they are decent corks. If they feel like a hunk of wood, there is a problem and they probably are not worth anything as far as I am concerned. The one exception is the agglomerated, they are pretty stiff to begin with but so far I have had zero issues with them.

Boiling natural corks used to be recommended, but it's not considered good practice anymore; if you are concerned about sanitizing them an alternative that is kinder to the cork is a quick rinse and spray of

Regards, Joe

There is no forcing at all with the foor corker. I find insertion is smooth and very nearly effortless. And my corks are correctly seated in the neck of the bottle every time I would never, never, boil corks -- it is a sure way to destroy its integrety and make it a useless seal. There is also the matter of the corks adding the fluid in them after boiling, to the wine in your bottle!

No not boil, but soak there is a difference, and as for adding fluid there is none. If you have never tried it don't knock it. Have you sourced a new supply. Stephen.

----- Original Message ----- From: "Pinky" Newsgroups: rec.crafts.winemaking Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2003 1:55 PM Subject: Re: Plastic corks - UK

There is no forcing at all with the foor corker. I find insertion is smooth and very nearly effortless. And my corks are correctly seated in the neck of the bottle every time I would never, never, boil corks -- it is a sure way to destroy its integrity and make it a useless seal. There is also the matter of the corks adding the fluid in them after boiling, to the wine in your bottle!

bottles that you force them in dry. Think of all that friction, i find that its fare better to soak the cork in boiling water first. The enables the cork to become supple and makes the cork fit

I've ordered some polythene corks from

Thanks everyone for your help, Lisa

I followed a recommendation in a well respected book and dunked my corks into boiling water for a couple of years. ALL of those corks failed within a year or two. The boiling breaks down the structure of the cork and it will disintegrate. I rarely ever come down this strong on anything but in this case ... NEVER boil corks.

Ray

I have been in applied mathematics for 30 years and have never seen these abreviations. Of course you would not see them in math texts as they are mathmaics coloquialisms. I will say they are logical and obvious once explained. I like them, Trevor. They would be more obvious if our messaging programs handled superscript.

Ray

I've never had any problems, how long did you say you have been making wine,

however perhaps we should get back to the issue, being plastic in place of cork.

Firstly you say that you have paid good cash for poor quality corks, what type were they,

Composite cork, or which grade are they,

A, These are corks with top quality visual appearance - excellent surfaces, with no major visual flaws and few small ones.

No holes or pores which exceed 2mm.

No cracks originating at the ends which exceed 11% of cork length.

No cracks in the body of the cork to exceed 18% of cork length.

All cracks must be tight and not open.

No horizontal cracks.

No worm holes, hardwood, belly spots, or greenwood.

Several narrow and shallow lenticels are acceptable if they are free of dust and particles.

B, These are corks of good visual appearance with no major visual flaws and with surface visual flaws of no depth or substance.

No holes or pores which exceed 5mm.

No cracks originating at the ends which exceed 18% of cork length.

No cracks in the body of the cork to exceed 25% of cork length.

All cracks must be tight and not open.

Lenticels and horizontal cracks must not open up when ends of the corks are bent.

No Greenwood. No angled or deformed corks.

Very small chips and lateral worm activity in the middle of the body of the cork may be acceptable.

Lenticels at ends must not be wide or deep and should be free of dust and particles

C. These are corks of average visual appearance with one or more major visual flaws which will be of cosmetic nature only. Thus they may be aesthetically unappealing, but functional.

No cracks, channels, hardwood or belly spots which exceed 55% of cork length.

Lenticels and horizontal cracks on body may open up when ends of the corks are bent.

Greenwood to 55% of cork length is acceptable unless severe depth or width.

Large chips are acceptable.

No worm activity from end to side which exceed 55% of cork length.

No dry years which exceed 55% of cork length.

There may be heavy, but not continuous porosity.

adding fluid

Secondly you say that your fed up cork, and want a supplier for plastic. Well try the cork supplier.

Seeing we don't know which neck of the woods your from, it may be helpful to the rest of the group

so that they may help you in this time of need.

nehpets

Ray

ray, truly said again, I am a retired telcomms design engineer, and I don't know how long I have been using the "colloquialism" --- for longer than I can recall ( in military engineering circles ). I know it isn't used in "pure and applied mathematics" and as usual, my statement was incorrect. But I have worked all over the world ( especially in eastern countries ) and most engineers I have communicated with would understand the abbreviation -- my old apple II could do 2 squared!!!!!!!!!!! ( and that shows I go back a long way!) but can't remember how to do it on winXP -- but then I rarely need it these days -- except today! lol :-)

hi nehpets or even a backward stephen

I do detect a slight symptom of which I often suffer myself -- as others who know me on here will affirm ----- that of riding my high horse. Your attempt at belittling the previous poster is trending towards the ridiculous. I know --- I have done it myself on occassion

Let me say that I have been making wine by all sort of methods for over 35 years and I have also tried every conceivable method a dealing with the way in which I cork my bottles. I will not try and list them here, but I could almost guarantee that I have run the total gamut of corking methods.

I have always been dissatisfied with a most important stage in the preservation of my wines and it is only in the last 2 years that I have used my corks fresh from the supplier, without any treatment, sterilisation, heating, boiling. This was on the recommendation ( as I have said in an earlier post ) of a cork manufacturer.

I can only say that for the first time, in long years of various methods, I am much happier with the end result of bottle aging than I have ever been.

And I say again " I would never ever boil corks".

I am not sure what relevance it has to your comments but since you ask -- I have been making wine for about 30 years.

Ray

Well Ray and Trevor you both seem to have the experience, nothing personal but having a similar amount of time served it was necessary to establish to whom i was communicating with. No not boil, but soak there is a difference, and as for adding fluid there is none. Yes you are right they do break up when you boil them. but by soaking them in pre-boiled water for 5 mins this makes them supple on the outer part of the cork but solid on the inside. Over the years that you have been making and bottling your wine, you will have come across various types and qualities of cork. The most venerable being composite cork. Then again if your using the wrong size this could have something to do with the problem your experiencing.

Let me say that I have been making wine by all sort of methods for over 35 years and I have also tried every conceivable method a dealing with the way in which I cork my bottles. I will not try and list them here, but I could almost guarantee that I have run the total gamut of corking methods.

I have always been dissatisfied with a most important stage in the preservation of my wines and it is only in the last 2 years that I have used my corks fresh from the supplier, without any treatment, sterilisation, heating, boiling. This was on the recommendation ( as I have said in an earlier post ) of a cork manufacturer.

I can only say that for the first time, in long years of various methods, I am much happier with the end result of bottle aging than I have ever been.

And I say again " I would never ever boil corks".

-- Trevor A Panther In South Yorkshire, England Remove "SPAMLESS" to reply. All outgoing mail is scanned by Norton Anti Virus for your protection too!

I am not sure what relevance it has to your comments but since you ask -- I have been making wine for about 30 years.

Ray

Hi everyone and thanks for your advice on this subject. Just for the record, i ordered 100 plastic corks (made by Eurocork and identical to Supremecorq) from Brewathome Had a bottling day yesterday with said corks (put in dry) and my new floor corker. No problems at all. That's definitely the way I shall go from now on.