Long live the screwcap! tn

Was given a cache of old cheap wines that had been stored undisturbed in a lounge room cupboard for decades. Most of them were undrinkable. Except for a screwcapped bottle of 1983 Hardys Old Castle Riesling (11% alcohol) - which had lain there since probably 1984.

There was no ullage. The wine was a bright golden yellow similar enough to the hue of many botrytised whites. The nose showed no oxidative edge at all - just typical aged Australian riesling character, faint lemon and lime, a hint of hydrocarbon, and spiced baked apples. The palate was soft and smooth, with more of the spicy apples, fading lemon zest and mild acid at the off-dry finish. Quite a delicious drink given its age.

In Australia back then screwcaps appeared only on el cheapo bottles. The brand - which I believe is now extinct - was a cheap commercial white designed for the drink-now market and certainly not for long term cellaring.

One can only imagine what the wine would have been like with a cork closure.

Cheers! Martin

Reply to
Martin Field
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Reply to
Joseph Coulter

Martin Field wrote: //snip

Screwcaps rock

Reply to
beernuts

One would prefer not to. :-)

More proof that the Stelvin is the right direction for wine to be heading towards.

Reply to
Salil

I would say this is NO PROOF of anything. This is not a scientific response at all.

Some old cheap wines simply go over the hills no matter what the closure. The wines that were undrinkable were not stated as TCA taint or anything else.

Therefore, one bottle good all others bad....no further info....no evidence of ANYTHING regarding the screw cap on one bottle of wine.

I think that is my biggest issue with the stelvin / screw cap supporters. Lets get rid of cork to get something that has not yet proven to help wines age gracefully. Find one bottle of a good older wine, nothing to compare to and let say this is the proof. Utterly Ridiculous.

Reply to
Richard Neidich

I'm inclined...and remember, I've only started posting in this group a few weeks ago, and I'm NO expert...

to think that wine, like anything, can benefit (*sometimes*) from technology, and this is one of those times....Technology is a fascinating thing. And, I DO remember, a particular "Three's Company", where Norman Fell smelled the screw cap of a crappy "boone's farm" type wine at a restaurant, as a joke. This was 20 years ago, and screw caps on wine were a real joke...no one realized at the time what they could do...

Now that there's not cork issue, I can now store my wines standing up...And this is better if I have a wine that has a lot of sediment in it. I don't have to worry about the cork drying out, right?

The only downside I can see is, in wine cellars, with wines laying down, it might be easier to see what which wine was...but, there's no reason you can't just lay a bottle down anyway...cork or cap...doesn's make any differnence

I was at a tasting recently...and the guy directing it mentioned that one vinter (R. H. Phillps) had decided to go with screwcaps, but eleceted to include a cork, attached to the bottle, just to let the consumers know that it was NOT a cost issue.

As for me...I like screw caps and natural corks. Synthetic corks...Grrrr....I've had a few synthetic corks actually BROKE my corkscrews...(although the corkscrews were plastic...)`

Well, that's out of the realm of my experience. I would be interesting, though, to see if wines aged differently BECAUSE of a cork. Maybe just he right amount of air would get into the wine. Maybe the cork, after years and years, would impart a certain flavor...

Reply to
JR

JR---I do think wine can and has benefited from technology. We are not drinking the stuff that was consumed during the crusades or ancient Greece.

I have not seen the cork with R.H. Phillips wines. That is a GREAT marketing statement.

That said, let me finish by saying I have had a 1997 Plumpjack Cab side by side Stelvin vs. Cork. Both wines were good. But they were very different in my opinion. I liked the one that is cork better. It had evolved, developed, and aged. The Stelvin was still un developed.

It is my opinion that we do not know enough when it comes to GREAT RED Wines. For any short term wines, mostly whites I have NO issue. For any I plan to lay down in cellar long term, I would be concerned with Stelvin that the wines may not drink in my lifetime.

I am sure more and more wines will have these closures for economic reasons more than quality of wine. I am also sure once RH Phillips gets their marketing accross they will cease to have both closures on bottle and get rid of one. You do this for 1-2 seasons and then forever save a few dollars per case. Not a bad investment.

I have no problem with advancing technology in the wine / packaging arena. There are those that argue here that TCA issue is cork and cork primarily. But we have seen that there are wineries that had TCA that was not introduced from cork. The Montelena and BV wines had issues. There were others as well.

At least sell the stelvin truthfully. If 20% of the TCA wines were attributed to Cork only, it may still be worth changing closure. If 100% of wines under closure do not age the same, if that affects the wine poorly.....then I would say not worth it.

By the posters own statement this wine aged differently. It had no Ullage on a wine from 1983. I imagine that would be different under cork and beleive that by itself tells you something is different.

Reply to
dick neidich

"dick neidich" wrote in news:16f_f.5076$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net:

Dick , at great personal risk for siding with you, I think that the OP actually made your point. The cork enclosed wines had deteriorated, the Stelvin closed bottle was still good, why? because IMNSHO the wine was not exposed to all of those deadly ageing agents that get in and out of the bottle through the porousity of the cork.

This is actually an argument against stelvin!

Reply to
Joseph Coulter

snip

I was trying to write a tn and in the interests of brevity I didn't add that the other old wines that had gone brown and oxidised and went down the sink were all under cork. Corks that were rotting. But it wasn't comparing like with like and I agree that this in itself proves nothing. Still the one drinkable, in fact likeable wine was under screwcap.

Cheers! Martin

Reply to
Martin Field

I have bought lesser white wines with stelvins or srewcaps. I have no issue cause most of my whites I plan to drink within 1-2 year of relase and a few months from purchase. With the exception of Stony Hill and El Molino Chards I don't keep Whites long term.

Quality Reds I feel age better under cork even if 1 out of 12 go bad its worth keeping cork because the other 11 are usually GREAT.

The Plumpjack Cab 1997 is my only example that was side by side comparison. Both wines again were good..no issues. Under Cork was better.

I would imagine a wine meant to be consumed at purchase would be oK...Gallo of Sonoma Cab/Merlot...fine. The Estate Bottle Cab...Cork only please. Silver Oak, Caymus, Phelps Insignia, cork only please....

Reply to
dick neidich

Joseph, you will rot in hell now for your post agreeing with me in part. :-)

Reply to
dick neidich

Joseph, It is a mistake to think that Stelvin allows *no* oxygen ingress, only that it allows much less than *most* corks. That being said, I am sure that in time the various manufacturers of screwcaps (not just Stelvin) will perfect their closure to give "cork-like" aging to wines. Still, I am also unconvinced that we're at that stage now, but since so few vins de garde are bottled under screwcap it's a moot point for the moment. Now, about that other 99% of wine...

Mark Lipton

Reply to
Mark Lipton

For the average daily wine...they could damn near use and old crimped bottle cap like the old coca cola as far as I am concerned. Stelvin is fine. That is my answer for the mass produced daily drinking quality---

But when others here that profess to be commerical experts, compare themselves to R. Parker Suggest all wine would be better under existing stelvin...claming 40 years of history already exist....I say Caveat Emptor.

Has Parker ever really commented on Cork vs Stelvin?

Reply to
dick neidich

I think the subject line of your original post maybe gave the wrong impression then. It did to me at least.

Dick,

I will be joining you and Joseph vacationing at Lake Brimstone as my feelings on this subject are similar to yours. Unfortunately our view is not in vogue .We will never change the views of people that passionately argue that corks are dead and screw caps are the only acceptable closure so I have given up the argument. It's like politics or religion, you can't change someone's core belief.

Andy

Reply to
JEP62

"JEP62" wrote in news:1144673697.655276.142360 @i40g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

I have had Pouilly Fuisse and Chablis under Stelvin and loved it! (Verget) but the post did seem to underscore the downside to long term cellaring if the wine could be protected from itself for that long. I wish it were not so because on any given day I am a Stelvin fan.

Reply to
Joseph Coulter

I am also a Stelvin Fan for virtually all my whites and daily reds. Just not long term keepers.

I am not anti Stelvin...just think it is not the cure to all issues for wine.

Joseph Coulter wrote:

Reply to
dick

I agree.

I would even go so far to say screw caps are ok for "some" of my long term wines. An experiment, if you will. I wouldn't be comfortable commiting my whole cellar to them at this time.

Andy

Reply to
JEP62

"JEP62" skrev i melding news: snipped-for-privacy@t31g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

I would. So far: No ill effects from Stelvin. 5-20% bad bottles with cork. Read tasting notes in this ng and elsewhere whenever older bottles are encountered - the majority are more or less disappointing when not downright faulty or undrinkable and when you finally get a good bottle with cork closure it is all hoopla, "fantastic" and so on...

Anders

Reply to
Anders Tørneskog

Reply to
Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg

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