Minerality

Positive.

Enthusiastically so!

Mark Lipton

Slight rash.

My palate says "yes."

My (somewhat inexperienced) palate tells me to break these up:

mineral (can come from young wines): slatey, dusty [Some say "the smell of fresh rain just fallen on thoroughly sun-warmed stones, followed by more warming sun to evaporate the water" or "pop a (clean) rock into your mouth." (Don't break your teeth! I think I'll try this rock trick.)]

(I personally like "mineral" in those white wines I've tasted that express it.)

metal (can come from young wines): steely, coppery, metallic

petrochemical (aged white wines?): petrol, diesel, kerosene, vinyl, plastic

not sure what to do with "sulfurous" (too much treatment with sulfur dioxide?) and "medicinal"

You are talking about mineral flavours, in that simple sense minerality can be found in many wines, it may just be due to the varietal (riesling).

But the term is more often used to describe something else, present in very few wines.

Minerality is not a rigorously defined term, in fact it is highly subjective, but its usage (at least here in France and among wine tasters with some experience) usually refers to a certain mouth taste or feel (not an aroma) something that could be simplified to "saltiness", but that seems too simple... :-) It is usually associated with white wines, particularly those from the Loire, Alsace, Champagne, and then again only those that can be associated to notions of terroir (there you go, more subjectivity) and wines that are quite complex. It manifests itself as the feeling that one is sucking on a stone (ever do that?), but it has nothing to do with the taste of stones, just the feeling thereof. Can be confused with acidity, but unlike acidity you can never have an excess of minerality. Get it?

To put it briefly, the day you get a wine that has minerality (and not just flinty or dieselly smells), you will know it...

Not at all, that you have in the tannins of red wine. It is more like a salty feeling.

I have heard the term "savory" (or "savoury") used. Is that the same as this somewhat elusive "minerality" ?

I wonder if "minerality" is simply attributable to higher levels (or, perhaps, "balanced" levels) of sodium and potassium.

Mike, could you toss out the names of a couple wines expressing the minerality mouthfeel, perhaps with similar wines not having it? (In keeping with the spirit of this food.wine group, why not toss out some food pairing suggestions with those wines as well.)

Thanks, Mike!

Further to the discussion, here's a link which may help (or, who knows, may confuse):

(note: the text in the link above continues on "page two")

Nonsense, the new world also grows vines in earth :-)

"Mike Tommasi"

Except for those of us downunder - where we do "everything" stranding upside down.

And in the Grimblett (sp) gravels where the vins grow in othing but about 20 metres depth of gravel with no discernable soil at all.

-- All the best Fatty from Forges