Moscatel

Known in italy as Moscato and in France as Muscat.

Usually, although in Alsace, they ferment it dry.

I love the setubel 25 year old from Fonseca. One of the world's great sweet wines, IMO.

You should perhaps look under the names I quoted.

I know Muscats from several places in southern France, Frontignan, Rivesaltes, Lunel, with (IMO) the best being that from Beaumes de Venise. In Italy, they make same sparklers from it, some of which are excellent. The Moscato d'Asti from Bera, for example is an infinitely more pleasurable match with a wedding cake at weddings than the eternal poor champagne so often served.

In Greece, (Samos) they also make a Muscat which isn't bad as well. So, you see .... some of us know the wines both under their Portuguese names and from elsewhere. All the best Ian Hoare (despite my "from address")

Ian told you already about many other places where muscat is grown. Let me add that we do have bone dry muscat wines here in Austria as well as marvellous botrytised examples from its close relative muscat-ottonel.

In the style you mentioned - fortified, sweet, and well-aged - Australia has a long and well-known tradition. They call it "liqueur muscat" over there.

M.

I live in the US, and have tasted wines from the Muscat grape(under various names) from many countries.

At one time a huge amount of sweet, fortified Muscatel was made in California. It was very cheap and gave the Muscat grape a bad name. However those who drank this many years ago, along with cheap California "Sherry", "Port", "Angelico" and such, mostly switched to Thunderbird and such when these flavored wine drinks became available.

I have Fonseca's Moscatel de Setubal 25 year old, the 1934 vintage, and their Torna Viagem that was traveled around the world in ships. These are all high class wines of their types. Their younger wie can often be found in large wine shops in the US.

There is a Moscatel Vintage Madeira, but it is not made so much anymore as in the 1800s. I have two bottles of de Oliveira Moscatel Vintage Madeira 1900.

Also a Muscat vintage Malaga was made in Spain quite a bit in the 1800s. I have one bottle of Gran Muscat Vintage Malaga from the early 1800s. Malaga does not seem to be very popular in many places anymore, and the quality of much of it probably is not very high anymore.

Perhaps the most famous Muscat of all is the legendary Constantia from South Africa. It was once sought by kings and regarded as one of the best wines of the world. Even in the middle to late 1800s production had nearly ceased. I have a single bottle of either the 1791 or 1809 vintage. Those who have tasted these old wines often report that they still drink quite well, despite their age. An attempt is being made to revive Constantia, but it is much too early to say if the new wines being made will compare well with the old ones. The old wines used a mixture of several Muscats to get the taste desired. Also I have read that the grape bunches were "twisted" so that they nearly cut off the sap flow as the grapes became very ripe. If done properly, this greaty increased the sugar content of the grapes. It probably would be very difficult to develop this skill today, and no doubt quite expensive.

Several decent Muscats are now being made in California now. One example is Andrew Quady's Elysium Black Muscat.

My mailbox is always full to avoid spam. To contact me, erase snipped-for-privacy@webtv.net from my email address. Then add snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com . I do not check this box every day, so post if you need a quick response.

Not to forget the rare Muskotaly Aszus from Tokaj.

M.

And let's don't forget Sicilian "Moscato", expecially the "passito" type wines from Pantelleria: sweet, with an alcohol addition ("liquoroso") or without. I also add Moscato d'Asti, sweet and sparkling dessert wine (the best for Panettone, Pandoro and many traditional italian cakes). And just now I start to remember the wonderful Moscato Rosa from Franz Haas or Elena Walch: both with a spectacularly tropical nose.

] Hi Ricardo, ] On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 01:27:27 -0000, Ricardo Ferreira ] wrote: ] ] > Being quite young, i still am very found of some of the great things i ] > learned in my youth. One of them is Moscatel. ] ] Known in italy as Moscato and in France as Muscat. ] ] > Its a sweet fortified wine. ] ] Usually, although in Alsace, they ferment it dry. [] ] I know Muscats from several places in southern France, Frontignan, ] Rivesaltes, Lunel, with (IMO) the best being that from Beaumes de Venise. ]

Hi,

I thought Muscat de Beaumes de Venise is a VDN (vin doux naturel) i.e. not fortified. Pretty sure that is the case (and that you know it, of course) just pointing it out as the OP is talking about fortified.

Another nice little sweet bubbly based on Muscat is Clairette de Die 'Traditionel' which is required IIRC to be 80% muscat, but is often 100%. These can be delightful, and at around 7-8 % alcohol make a great aperitif when there's a heavy board coming. :)

-E

In addition to many that have already been named, I was Moscato in full force in Sardinia, where I happened to be last week for a few days. I saw names as per places of origin (e.g. di Cagliari and di Sardinia. There may be more). There were also sub-classification based on process of making (normal or Liquoroso) and taste (normal or Secco). I did try some glasses in bars and quite enjoyed them with the sardinian pecorino and a "marmalade"-like pickle of organges & tomatoes that they nake. I imagine that these will also taste good with cheeses like Gorgonzola. Would anyone care to comment?

There are some Somos wines available in my neighbourhood market and perhaps I shall try a bottle one of these days - maybe with Korean-style fried squids or octopus.

Cheers

I too have warm memories of the industrial California wine called "muscatel". In my youth I worked a number of unskilled jobs where I was in contact with drifters and small-scale sharpsters. They drank muscatel fairly steadily through the day. Once in a while they shared some with me and the sweet characterless stuff tasted good. and so in my late teens I finally felt I was "grown up". I doubt that there was any muscat in the stuff. It was churned out in rail tank cars and then bottled at wholesalers across the country. ah youth!

"Cwdjrx _" escreveu na mensagem news: snipped-for-privacy@storefull-3178.bay.webtv.net...

Quite interesting. Never thought it had all that history. Thank you all for the comments. Its amazing to be able to learn a bit a day.

Regards ricardo

Sorry, but VDNs - all of them! - *are* fortified. The N, standing for "naturel", says nothing else that the sweetness comes only from from the sugar in the grapes (chaptalisation, concentration, and cryoextraction verboten). One of the relevant texts, on Muscat de Beaumes de Venise:

| Art. 4. - (Modifié D. 22 juin 1956, D. 19 mai 1972 et D. | 21.janvier 1975) - Les vins bénéficiant de l'appellation | contrôlée susvisée devront être obtenus avec les moûts possédant | obligatoirement une richesse naturelle initiale en sucre de 252 | grammes au minimum par litre, dans lesquels a été fait, en cours | de fermentation, un apport évalué en alcool pur de 5 % au | minimum et de 10 % au maximum du volume des moûts à l'aide | d'alcool titrant au moins 95°. | | Les vins faits doivent titrer une richesse minimum en alcool | acquis de 15° et contenir au moins 110 grammes de sucre par | litre.

From:

or

M.

] Emery Davis wrote: ] ] > I thought Muscat de Beaumes de Venise is a VDN (vin doux ] > naturel) i.e. not fortified. Pretty sure that is the case (and ] > that you know it, of course) just pointing it out as the OP is ] > talking about fortified. ] ] Sorry, but VDNs - all of them! - *are* fortified. The N, standing ] for "naturel", says nothing else that the sweetness comes only ] from from the sugar in the grapes (chaptalisation, concentration, ] and cryoextraction verboten). One of the relevant texts, on Muscat ] de Beaumes de Venise: ]

Thanks Michael, I stand corrected.

That's what I love about afw, even on subjects where I *ought* to know, I can still learn! :)

-E

] | Art. 4. - (Modifié D. 22 juin 1956, D. 19 mai 1972 et D. ] | 21.janvier 1975) - Les vins bénéficiant de l'appellation ] | contrôlée susvisée devront être obtenus avec les moûts possédant ] | obligatoirement une richesse naturelle initiale en sucre de 252 ] | grammes au minimum par litre, dans lesquels a été fait, en cours ] | de fermentation, un apport évalué en alcool pur de 5 % au ] | minimum et de 10 % au maximum du volume des moûts à l'aide ] | d'alcool titrant au moins 95°. ] | ] | Les vins faits doivent titrer une richesse minimum en alcool ] | acquis de 15° et contenir au moins 110 grammes de sucre par ] | litre. ] ] From: ] ] ] or ] ] ] ] M.

Sounds similar to the Louis Martini "Muscato Amabile" ($20, Napa Valley). It's only available for purchase at the winery because it must be kept refrigerated, as it is sweet and unfiltered. I picked up some for the holidays on my way home.

Tom S