Musings on Pinot Noir fruit

I have not had such a good laugh in a long time. I was using Google groups to read this group. They put sponsored ads in a column on the right of the screen that some program they use thinks may be related to the post. The first ad for your post was Buy Fruit Fly at

. Eds Fly Meat sells fruit flies to those who keep animals that eat fruit flies, such as frogs. The second ad was from Organic Essential Oils which had a somewhat better connection to what you were discussing.

I try not try to be too exact in description of fruits or flowers that a wine reminds me of. The same can happen if you try to describe the taste of a fruit that someone else has not tasted in terms of other fruits. For example, a mango might remind you of yellow peaches, a hint of pine or other evergreen, perhaps a splash of pineapple and honey, etc.

If I confine myself to classic Burgundy, I usually think of perhaps red cherry with black cherry for some of the fuller wines. However some cassis, blackberry, perhaps dark plum is possible. Some lighter Burgundy, especially from cooler years, can make me think of strawberry. Then there often is a vague mixed spice character to some of the better Burgundy - especially DRC. I seldom associate flowers with Burgundy, although I often do so with some of the better examples of German Riesling, especially from the Mosel.

all thats been mentioned in the previous post.

old good Burg is pisspot pinot organic and smells like old claret, blackcurrants and tobacco.

which famous wine writer said that he hadn't mixed up old Burgundy with Claret since that morning.

JT

Much wisdom in above replies. Elders make much sense. :)

While I'm one of AFW's leading practitioners of the "name that fruit" style of note taking, I don't think for others that what fruit I detect makes a huge difference (nor do I pay that much attention to others' descriptors). Though a basic red vs black (or maybe white vs yellow in some whites) can give a clue re fruit style, just as reading about earth/forest floor/mushrooms can give a clue re secondary notes.

That being said, to me the purest fruit expression of Pinot Noir is red and black cherry. But red and black raspberry, red currants (occasionally black currant), strawberry are all part of the palette (not palate); occasionally blackberry or red/black plum. If blueberry raises its head I tend to run away screaming.

Getting back to the red/black fruit thing, I'm not as familiar with Santa Maria Valley pinot and have no set ideas. But in Burgundy I think of some areas (Volnay, Savigny) as more red fruit, and others (Pommard, Nuits St George) as more black. Also I think fruit is darker in higher acid vintages, and redder in the low acid vintages. But no hard and fast rules.

If you want the honest truth, in my personal TNs I have given up describing PN in terms of other fruits. I just find it so distinctive there is little point in bothering. I just try to describe it in terms of jamminess and intensity etc.

But if I were forced to make a comparison I'd probably go for morello cherry.

I often get sour cherries and occasionally a lavender/strawberry mix in the better ones. Too much strawberry and my brain says Grenache and that, to me, is the wrong flavor profile for Pinot Noir.

Why do you do this? Is there some disorder that you suffer? Wine has odors. So? Enjoy them...in silence....

What UC is what you get...

Mark, I think the difficulty is in deciding what is varietal and what is not... but here is my stab.

All the berries come to mind, depending on maturity and climate (Blackberry, cherry, raspberry, strawberry), but no flowers (certainly not white flowers) except maybe violet (which is similar to raspberry anyhow).

Wines have their own odors that only vaguely resemble others. Why does anyone care about shit like this? Honestly......do you get out of your car and sniff new asphalt to see whether it resembles a barnyard?

It's just shorthand, UC. If we were to follow your logic to the end, we would stop writing on the NG. And I don't sniff asphalt because I know what it smells like and I don;t eat it nor write about it on a newsgroup.

I'm in California this week, I just noticed the asphalt here smells different, less sulphur-like.

Different terroir and microclimate, surely...

a LOT of the "odors" "smell" "bouquet" in wine are from the oak they are aged in and not the grape itself. If one were to actually smell the grapes fermented in stainless, then one could tell the "Varietal" differences.

I am an amateur winemaker / winegrower and worked at a commercial vineyard after retirement. I am always amused and sometimes disgusted by the wine "experts" ALA snobs, who have never grown, crushed or fermented a grape in their entire life and yet they can tell "Varietal" differences in the "grapes / wine ???".

I would even go so far as to bet that the following experiment could be done.

Take any vineyard. Ferment, for example, Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc and Merlot and barrel age them in the same age oak barrel and oak of the same origin and for the same length of time. I am willing to bet that the average "expert" could not distinguish the three and if they could tell a difference they would miss identify the variety.

White wines, on the other hand are "usually" not barrel aged with the exception of some Chardonnay and some other varieties such as Sauvignon Blanc ("Fume Blanc"). One CAN usually tell the Varietal differences in non barreled whites.

Conclusion:

Red wines, barrel aged, are STRONGLY influenced by the barrel - probably MORE so than the "Varietal differences.

Most commercial winemakers will (might confide in you) tell you that the best way to make up deficiencies in a red wine are to "oak the hell out of it" - us a lot of new barrels.

Advice:

If you enjoy the wine, forget about all the phony descriptors and just drink up.

"Mike Tommasi" wrote ......

Did you get down on all fours and lick it Michael?

When I have conducted this very interesting experiment I found a distinct tar flavour in Piedmont; whereas the asphalt in Bandol had distinct leather/tobacco nuances.

Australia on the other hand is pure eucalypt and kangaroo shit !!!!!

st.h

OK,

I get it.

Don't be stupid. Smelling an licking is for professional only. You've got to eat a whole one with a meal. I do this all the time with Italian roads and unsderstand them properly.

Every different bottling of Nero d'Avola tastes wildly different to me. There is little, if any, 'varietal' charcter that I can detect.

Not a good thing.