Re: Back from South America

French Champagne I hope...not the Sparkling from other places....

If it is good French, those birds are around the block from me 2 months of the year.

Not insulting at all. I am a United Statesian, and I am embarassed not to go along with the rest of the world in this.

Well Ken, I like most people in/on the edge of science, have been dealing with metrics for the last 50 or so years. On the other hand, having some one that can't spell meter telling me to standardize or some one from a country whose train tracks are based on the width of Roman chariots telling me to modernize is a bit hard to take seriously.

I missed something here. Incredibly, US, European and Chinese and most of the world use the same 1435mm gauge. New Zealand does not. Ooooh, I et it! :-)

I don't see that train tracks has anything to do with this. I simply think the entire world should measure things the same way, and since the rest of the world uses the metric system, and the US is in the (enormous) minority, it's we that should go along with everyone else, not the other way around.

The fact that the metric system is clearly better than the systems the US uses is almost irrelevant.

Thats a good argument...BE A FOLLOWER NOT A LEADER?

Bill is right, and there are tens of millions of us (surely more than the whole population of Australia and New Zealand) in the US who have used the "metric" system far more than the _average_ person in those countries. (Anyone in the sciences, engineering, technology, medical fields, manufacturing, import/export, military, etc.) It's a small mind that can't function in more than one measurement system. :-) It's a little cute when they get all self righteous and uppity about us being out of touch.

(Not addressing you only.) Actually, the "metric" system has officially been the "preferred" system of the US since Congress passed the Metric Conversion Act of 1975. It has also been a government directive since 1992 that all federal government business be conducted in metric units, unless a waiver is specifally granted on something because it will save the government money. In Texas at least, school children must be instructed in use of the metric system starting at age seven. The difference is that the government has not _forbidden_ us from doing things in whatever units we want otherwise, as opposed to more "enlightened" countries of the world that _dictate_ what units you can sell beer to your neighbor in.

The upshot is that the US use of units is governed by Darwinism except when doing business with our own federal government.

And the average person these days does "use" the metric system. A lot. (What is the width of your car tire? The "size" of your car engine? The focal lengths of your camera lenses? The distance around your school running track? Your blood pressure? The volume of your Coke bottle? The weight of an aspirin? )

I've used the metric system almost daily for more than 50 years, but I refuse, for example, to pace off my distances on the golf course in meters (try it sometime), estimate how much to torque a nut in newton-meters, or air up my tires in kilopascals. Yards, pound-feet, and psi's will have to be pried from my cold dead hands. :-) (Cue national anthem.)

Zane

"Zane" wrote ..........

Population Australia = 20.5m Population NZ = 4.2m

Even my dear 85 years old mum would now have no idea what her weight was in anything other than kilograms, but probably understands miles and acres better than ha & km.

Those aged 60 use and think in metrics, while still understanding and easily converting to the "old standards"

Those, say 50 and under, who have lived all their lives using metrics would have no idea - there is not two units of measurement.

From personal experience, if *change* is introduced, it probably takes two/three generations for the old to be forgotten.

As to your contention that the *average* person in Australia or NZ uses anything other than metric standards; apart from countering with "how do you define "average" - your argument fails, because 100% of the population (again, other than those over 80 - hardly average!) has no choice - metrics rule!

You further say ...

Yes, I just checked, your 4.6l engine in a Ford Mustang cranks out 300 hp!

Do they even make camera lenses in the US any more?

The NY and Boston marathons are still 26m 385yds!

Whilst liquor is sold in quarts!

And neither should you - St.Andrews still measures hole length in yards!

But, you & me will eventually pass; the next generation will adopt a few more metric standards in their common usage and the following one, yet a few more.

Your imperial system is doomed ! ;-)

And can we please let this thread die on that humerous note?

Dave

(snip)

I didn't make myself clear. My point is that there are many more than

25 million Americans who use metric units in their daily lives more intensely, or more often, than the average Antipodean. Recognizing that (virtually) everyone there uses it, but that people in the professions I listed use it more often than an average person. In other words, there are tens of millions of Americans who know the system as well as anybody - a fact that seems to be ignored by furriners.

(snip)

Consistency was never claimed. :-) Although virtually all other races, including distance races, are in meters.

(snip)

Ah, yes, the good ol' Brits -- God bless 'em and their residual orneriness. Didn't I see that they recently got the EU (or was it the British Govt.) to continue to allow them to sell beer in pints and half-pints?

Probably so, but I think the above three examples and several more will be hard to get rid of any time soon, especially if survival of the fittest is allowed.

Zane

Gee Dave, my first reply to Ian and St Hell was humorous! Why whatever do you mean?

Hi Zane,

on Wed, 19 Dec 2007 06:53:56 -0600, you said:-

there are tens of millions of Americans who know the

Who mentioned the USA? Not I? I was surprised by the knee'jerk aggressivity by a couple of people here, but - judging by past performance I suppose I shouldn't be. I merely translated >3000 metres to >10k feet for those metrically challenged individuals who have yet to join the 20th century. Now if some people have got their knickers in a twist because the cap fitted..... perhaps they are the ones who have blown this thread out of all proportion.

In the meantime I shall continue to tease people who can't understand centigrade, grammes, litres or metres. But I do beg geriatrics with high blood pressure to add me to their kill filters, as I really don't want to be held responsible for their heart attacks.

Anyone heard of Diebolt-Vallois Champagne?

Sorry, I just have to jump in with my two cents. (US)

I object strongly to metrification on the basis that it reduces the richness of human experience. It promotes the pablumization of the world. (for those without kids, pablum is a neutral - read tasteless - non allergenic totally unobjectionable breakfast cereal) Yes, it makes it easier to travel, but I look to travel to broaden my perspectives, to see how others solved the same problems. If you like standardization in weights and measures, lets standardize a few other things - lets use only one way of depicting human spoken sounds - the western alphabet of course - and agree on the sounds depicted by each letter. Then we could all pronounce Gaelic! Of course all those other ways of writing and expression would have to go

- Korean, Chinese, Tagalog, Urdu and so on.. Or better yet! One language! English is so far ahead, that would be the obvious choice... Sorry France, no more language of love... It would also be easier to travel if we all agreed on the Euro. Toss out all those Dinars, Escudos, Yuan and Yap stone wheels. If there is only one way to measure distance, why not one way to measure wealth and value? And electricity has already been mentioned - forget the installed base infrastructure, just pick a standard and go with it. What? We want our wines to express terroir, but not the people who produce them? We can't even agree on a proper bottle closure... Standardization promotes one-think, shrinks the mind and rots the body. I for one am sorry the Brits lost the shilling, and think the Kiwis would be better off adopting the Maori system of weights and measures. Now, I'm going to go stand in a corner and pout.

Yes, this stuff is amazing. We have a few places here in NC, USA that sell it. I assume small producer...I have bought a few of theirs but the one we like most at our house is the one with the Purple and Yellow flowers on the label....I think is a Tradition a Cramant and it is a real favorite and a lot less cost then the "National Brand Dom P and Cristals of the world.

THIS IS SERIOUS WINE!!!

Did you know it is 750 ml?

I had this wonderful English car (Triumph TR3) that used metric sizes(for the engine only). Whitworth for the body parts and SAE for the chassis. Now that is standardization by inclusion. Sadly no wine rack.

Richard Neidich wrote:

Funny thing here Ian...I did not mention USA either in my reponse which I snipped to show here:

I call it a society that does not use Metric....sounds like your buddy in NZ switched the emphasis for you. Since he is your protector.

Anyway, that is great champagne you referenced.

Yeah, right. You never intended to get a dig in at all, did you? And why "continue" below if you were only helping out the disadvantaged?

I've noticed that rude individuals seem to do that quite often. Of course I merely point that out as an academic observation, and wouldn't expect anyone here to get their knickers in a twist over it.

Zane