Re: Back from South America

Of course classic Constantia has not been made in the memory of any living person. From what I have read, it was made from a mix several varieties of Muscat grapes. One very important step in making the wine was "twisting". After the grapes became quite ripe, the stems of grape bunches were twisted to nearly, but not quite cut off flow of sap. This caused controlled drying of the grapes so that the juice became very concentrated in sugar but the grapes did not completely dry up into raisins. This likely required much skill and would be very expensive to do today, even if one knew exactly how.

A little true Constantia came up for auction in GB quite a few years ago. Michael Broadbent and others have described tasting some of it. The bottles were mostly from the late 1700s and early 1800s. A very few of these bottles then appeared at a US auction. I bid for one bottle and won it. It is either the 1791 or 1809 - it was uncertain from which bin it came. Needless to say it was quite expensive, but it would appear to be cheap today when a not-too-old bottle of Romanee- Conti, say the 1985, can sell for very many thousands of US$ - very much more than the Constantia cost. I do not follow the auctions anymore and I have not heard of any recent sales of classic Constantia. If you follow many auctions long enough, a bottle of it may come up for auction when an owner dies or has money problems. However there likely are very few bottles left anywhere. Given the right auction with customers from the far east and with adequate publicity, it would not surprise me if a bidding war developed and the classic Constantia might even set a new world record for a sweet wine.

No, Lord Hell, I had the 1997 and apparantly the wine has affected your memory. See below as even the Robert Parker site has the 1997. For a second you had me thinking my memory was off on the vintage...but it is not. I had the

1997 Klein Constantia Vin de Constance Natural Sweet Wine Klein Constantia A Muscat Sweet White Dessert wine from Constantia, South Africa

Source Reviewer Rating Maturity Current (Release) Cost

Wine Advocate # 145 Feb 2003 Pierre Rovani 93 Drink 2003 - 2018 $50 (50) The complex 1997 Vin de Constance sports a nose reminiscent of the one hundred and fifty-year old luxury bottling of Grand Marnier. Candied orange peel, cherries, and spices are intermingled with hints of honey in its gorgeously defined aromatics. Red currants, kumquats, nuts, minerals, and floral flavors can be discerned in its detailed character. This medium-bodied wine, produced entirely from Muscat, is lively, elegant, packed with nuanced flavors, and sports a long, supple, expressive finish. Drink it over the next 15+ years. Importer: Cape Classics, New York, NY; tel. (212) 686-1300.

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"Richard Neidich" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@corp.supernews.com:

Gentlemen, in the Spoirit of Christmas (OK it is Boxing day for you today M'lord,) You are arguing at cross purposes.

Richard will note that St Helier was talking of the other product and vice versa

From the mid 1980s, Klein Constantia, now in private ownership, has produced a wine called Klein Constantia "Vin de Constance", said to be from the clone of Muscat de Frontignan propagated from vines, which in all likelihood came from the original stock used in Constantia 300 years before.

In 1974, the land and assets of Groot Constantia were vested into the control of the Groot Constantia Trust; but has relied on state funding to remain viable.

It too has been replanted and produces wine, Sauvignon Blanc based whites, and several reds - but also a wine called Groot Constantia "Constance" in the style of the original wines.

However, "Constance" has only been produced since 2003!

If the above review is even close to accurate, then it proves to me that the wine being sold as a sweet Constantia, Vin de Constance, or whatever they wish to call it, has about as much relation in quality to classic Constancia as near beer has to beer, although it may be a quite decent sweet wine. The estimate, "Drink 2003 - 2018", if accurate, tells it all. This likely would be be extended to a period of a 100 to several hundred years if we had a new wine made in the same way as classic Constantia. The price also likely would have to be close to that of a top German TBA to justify the extremely labor intensive methods, including "twisting", used to make best quality classic Constantia.

What do you mean by Twisting?

"cwdjrxyz" wrote .......

Exactly! (Perhaps I did not make myself clear in my response to Richard)

The last, true classic "Constantia" was made in about 1872, before the effects of powdery mildew (oïdium) and phylloxera virtually wiped out the entire operation as it was at that time.

Today, two separate vineyards; Klein Constantia and Groot Constantia make their own natural (ie unfortified) sweet wines, respectively called "Vin de Constance" and "Grand Constance".

And yes, cwdjr, the "olde" technique where the stem was partially broken while the grapes continued to hang and shrivel is certainly no longer employed.

st.helier

I explained twisting in an earlier post. This thread has become so long that it is difficult to keep up with all of the things that have been discussed in it, and sometimes some posts are not seen on some news readers. Thus I will copy a paragraph from an older post blow.

"Of course classic Constantia has not been made in the memory of any living person. From what I have read, it was made from a mix several varieties of Muscat grapes. One very important step in making the wine was "twisting". After the grapes became quite ripe, the stems of grape bunches were twisted to nearly, but not quite cut off flow of sap. This caused controlled drying of the grapes so that the juice became very concentrated in sugar but the grapes did not completely dry up into raisins. This likely required much skill and would be very expensive to do today, even if one knew exactly how."

There are many kinds of Muscat grapes, and they can taste and smell quite different. You soon find that out if you taste some of the single variety Muscat wines made in California today. Compare some of the Muscats made by Andrew Quady including their Black Muscat.

My favorite modern South African sweet white wine is Nederburg's Edelkeur. It is made from botrytis Chenin Blanc grapes, and the closest relative in Europe would be a very rich late harvest Loire. I have a few half bottles of their 1979, and it still is holding well. It is very sweet, but has enough acid to balance. I have yet to see a Chenin Blanc wine that does not have enough acid - the problem with this grape in many cooler areas is that it sometimes has too much acid for many tastes, especially when young and dry.