Return from California and Colorado

welcome back, ready to go back to being jealous of your posts! :)

Thanks Dale. It was a long trip and I'm glad to be home.

Bi!!, did the noise and crowding at Bouchon bother you. It put me off a bit. We usually eat one meal at Redd while in Yountville. Their tasting menu is incredible.

You and I have similar tastes in more than wine Larry. Yes, it was quite loud (on a Sunday evening no less) and very close quarters...we were seated in the small bistro tables that are across from the bar so my back was basically at the bar. Our tablemates were fun and we all took it in stride much like one would at a Paris bistro but it did take away from my enjoyment of the meal......Oysters and cold cracked lobster (how does Thomas Keller do lobsters that are so tender?) followed by trout with almonds and haricots vert...cheese for dessert. FYI, they served the best baguette I've ever tasted. All well done.

Their bakery is a first of the morning stop for me.

...and a stop for a couple hundred other people. There is a line out of the door all day long at the bakery.

Cooking sous vide. I've been reading up and starting to experiment myself with the technique. I did read a little about this, and apparently he makes a highly concentrated lobster butter which he uses to slather the lobster tails. He then vac packs the tails and cooks them in a water bath for quite a while. I've never eaten better lobster than at the French Laundry, done that way. According to Baldwin, shellfish is best cooked between 49C and 60C. I think you might get some good information in Keller's book "sous-vide". I'm afraid I couldn't find times on a quick look.

As I write I'm doing "sous vide" lamb best ends for tonight. 8-9 hours a pan of water at 58-59°C (136 to 138°F). I will finish off with a mustard and herb crust blasted under the grill for a few minutes. All the best Fatty in Forges

Hi again Bi!!

On Thu, 27 May 2010 14:23:42 -0700 (PDT), "Bi!!"

As a follow up to my last, this URL might be interesting to you.

Ian wrote on Mon, 31 May 2010 16:13:40 +0200:

I'm sure the lamb will taste good but, despite Keller, is it safe? A temperature of 145F is called for by US Federal regulations for pasteurization of milk and cream but I don't know of any experiments at the slightly lower temperature you intend. I don't believe The French Laiundry has had any food poisoning problems but look what happened to "The Fat Duck".

Thanks for the link. I'm goign to attempt it next weekend. The lobster at the Keller restaurants is outstandingly tender without being mushy and it has a deep sweet lobster flavor. I am usually not a lobster fan, I find the tail meat to be tough and stringy if not cooked perfectly and the tails and claws cook at different rates when steamed or boiled.

Yes. I think you might like to refer to the work of Douglas Baldwin here

I am not conversant with the US regulations, but with respect, we aren't talking about pasteurisation of dairy products. That said, while the rate at which mesophilic bacteria are killed is higher at the temperatures you mention, I think you'll find that 8-9 hours at only 5C° or so below is perfectly effective.

The problems there were traced to a norovirus infection, I think you'll find. It hit the papers because it was the Fat Duck and so many of the customers who went down with it, were pretty influental and wealthy. With the greatest respect, that has nothing to do with sous vide cooking.

Sous vide may be new to me, but it has been carried out in top restaurants for quite a number of years now. I fully accept that the line between target temperatures and failing to kill bacteria is quite a fine one in this cooking method, but with modern electronic probe thermometers and care, one can certainly maintain a water bath at 59

If anyone is interested, I've put up some pictures here

All the best Fatty in Forges

Do let us know how you get on. However, I BEG you, make quite sure that you have the kit to maintain the target temperature with at most

At the time, I said - and I stand by what I said - that four dishes there made me rethink what I thought I know about them.

Agree again entirely. Now I understand how he did it, I have to say the only thikng preventing me from trying it is the unbelievable price they cost here.

All the best Fatty in Forges

What happened? This?

:) :)

I'm borrowing a sous vide immersion bath machine from a chef friend of mine. The time and temp are automatically regulated. He paid about $600 for the machine for home use and it's the size of a home countertop fryer.

Ian wrote on Tue, 01 Jun 2010 01:38:10 +0200:

It's not the same thing I suppose, but I also very much like broiled lobster. The texture is a lot firmer, especially if we are talking about "lobster tails" (rock lobster etc.) Unfortunately, lobster tails are distinctly expensive, especially if you regard a serving as more than one :-)

Off this topic I suppose, but what would you suggest for drinking with broiled lobster? A dry white like Sancerre occurs to me.

I like Batard Montrachet with broiled lobster. To me there is a smoky, earthy quality to Batard that goes well with the slightly grilled flavor of broiled fish/shellfish. I also think that the intense citrus and butter flavors of Batard match well with lobster.

Hi Jim,

On Tue, 1 Jun 2010 08:57:35 -0400, "James Silverton"

I certainly agree that a dry white is perfect, but I find that with the sweetness of the lobster, and the butter without which a grilled lobster just isn't worth it (IMO natch) I prefer a rather "fatter" wine. I don't know if you ever tasted it, but Tom Shudic's Chardonnay would be perfect, or a good white Burgundy. I don't have Bi!!'s cellar, but I'd be very happy with a Meursault Genevrières, whose hazelnut flavours would go very well too, Mind you, I'd not spit on either a decent Puligny or Chassagne 1st growth.

Bi!!. You've all you need. Go for it.

I'm still havering how to get a cut price set up. Would an ordinary thermostat do, or do I HAVE to have a PID? Can I use an electric water bath jar steriliser or do I have to go for the much costlier bain marie. Decisions, decisions.

All the best Fatty in Forges

I'd go for a Meursault Genevrieres any day especially with steamed or boiled lobster....especially those lovely Bleu's from France.

That would depend on the power of the heater. Generally, you need PID only when the power of the heater is such, that overshoots are likely, and you want to avoid that. If the heater is relatively weak, I don't see why a thermostat won't do. The important thing is to assure the accuracy and the sensitivity of the temperature sensor, and make sure the temperature is uniform in the entire volume (active mixing?). Then you can set the target temperature and hysteresis with good precision (I would suggest 0.1C). I'd be happy to help you set it up, if I was anywhere near you; as it is, I can provide only remote encouragement. :)