Best California wines

Sigh...........

I've been reading Alistair Cooke's compiled "Letter from America" and he uses this as an example of how English & American English differ:

UK usage: Californian wine

US usage: Californian = someone from California

California wine = wine from California

Californian wine = meaningless!

pk

Obsessed with 'best'? Typical American idiot.

Opus One.

Buy it by the case and get a discount..

Others have already 'sighed' from such a question because there is no such thing as Best. It's like asking whats the best car, shoe or anything else. Depends on ones tastes.

The best one could say would be to go to extremes. Caymus is better than Fetzer.

We could help you out if you narrow it to what types of wines and the styles you prefer. For instance, I like huge fruit forward Zinfandels. Top of my list of affordable Zins are Opolo, Karly, Segasio, Selby and Wild Coyote.

Opus One is a very nice wine. It's problem is that its priced by the label and not whats in the bottle. While a great wine there are many others just as notable at a far lower cost.

Through the 1980's I bought Caymus SS every year for $25-$35. Then all of a sudden Caymus became well known and the SS rose to well over $100. Still just as great a wine as ever but again, overpriced.

What I meant by that was with regards to their SS. The price was fairly flat through most of the 80's averaging $25-$35. In the late 80's I paid $35 and the next year it went to $55 followed by $75 a year later and over $100 by the early 90's. Thats a rapid incline in price!!

The real escalation started after the '91 vintage. They were one of the first wineries to break the $100 barrier with IIRC their '94 SS. FWIW, I was a longtime fan of their Cabernets and had one memorable tasting hosted by Charlie Wagner (the father). However, I actually preferred the Estate bottling to the SS, which even back then I found too oaky for my tastes. To me, they did undergo a stylistic shift, probably around '94: the wines became less structured, more fruit-forward and less ageworthy (IMO). Of course, by then they'd priced themselves out of my price range anyway, so it didn't really matter all that much. I still remember fondly their '79 Estate Cab, which I bought for $10.50 a bottle

-- I drank my last bottle of it in '90 and it was still beautiful.

Mark Lipton

Assuming that this is a legit, albeit ambiguously stated, you must first define "best." My best, not be Ed's best, on and on.

What exactly are you asking?

We'll do much better with a few definitions, and then within the guidlines imposed by our individual palates.

Hunt

The last SS I've had was an 85 opened in 95 for Thanksgiving. One of the best Cabs I've had up to that time. When SS became too expensive my favorite became Plumpjack but it too has gotten expensive. For the most part I just don't drink many Cabs any more. Just too dang expensive for a really nice Cab. Other varietals are much more affordable such as Syrah, Petite Syrah, Zinfandels etc.

One of my favorites is Larkmead Estates. They have grwon there for over 100 years. Great stuff, 1/3 the price of Caymus SS.

In the 80's $25-$35 for a bottle of wine would put the wine the high rent district. SS and Shafer Hillside are perhaps my two favorites for best made wines year in and year out from Napa and compared to many of the high priced Napa cabs out there that push the $100+ envelope they almost seem like bargains When compared to $500-$700 or more for a bottle of 2005 1st Growth Bordeaux the prices don't seem that stupid. FWIW, Caymus didn't become well known all of the sudden. The Wagner family has been making wine in Napa since 1915 the current vineyards were purchased and first planted with Cabernet in

1960. Caymus was established as a brand in 1972 and SS was first produced in 1975. The cost of the wines is basically a reflection of their success in terms of the dreaded "scores" and the prices established by the market for many high profile Napa cabs.

When Far Niente with the 1995 vintage took an unprecidented price increase Caymus did the same. He justified the increase on two counts, 1) cause he could and 2) because he felt it was needed to compete on a global basis and upkeep of property.

Rumors spread it was due to a divorce settlement. I have no idea if that is true but the wife got the Conundrom I was told.

Fortunately, what is best depends on your individual viewpoint. This is very important, for if everyone agreed on the best, likely only a few billionaires could afford it as it likely would cost several thousand US$ per bottle. Things that some people might consider in deciding on the best (for them) are taste, cost, what is fashionable, what a certain critic thinks, how reliable the quality is from year to year, how the wine ages, etc. But even if you could have only the wine at the top of the list, it soon would become boring, just as would top caviar, Mouton-Rothschild 1945, or Romanee-Conti 1945, or anything else, if you were forced to consume only it every day. For me some of the Cabernet wines from Ridge's home vineyard have been near the top for several decades. If forced to select only one California wine, this might be it. However, I would have to be allowed to drink wines from other regions most of the time, or I soon might be drinking beer, coffee, or tea most days to avoid boredom with the same drink every day.

__________________________________

I'll offer to alter the style of this question in hopes that snobbery doesn't occur in this new incarnation. heh. I do this because I'm rather curious about questions vaguely related to the OPs.

What are some better quality wines from California at a decent price range, say, oh, below 20 dollars. I'm always interested in reds, but I'm not sure about the OP. Anyway, lets see what comes from this.

in article wJFOh.19027$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net, Richard Neidich at snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net wrote on 3/28/07 6:43 PM:

The story I'm told has the most legitimacy is that Wagner did get a divorce but that his wife did NOT get Condundrum. After the divorce she DID start her own winery, called Emmolo, but her family was in the business before she married Wagner. She no doubt left the marriage with a chunk of Wagnber/Caymus' money, but the Conundrum story just ain't so. That story seemed to gain momentum when Wagner removed the Caymus name from the Condundrum product, probably to strengthen the name Caymus even more in the Cabernet royalty circles. He also sold Liberty School as well.

Really!?? I never would have guessed.

It was a joke. Didn't you get it?

What I should of said then is what are some of the better wines. I was in a hurry when I wrote the message. I'm also a newbie to wines so take it easy on me...I'm just now starting to learn and appreciate the different varieties of wines. When I visit my local wine store I just get so overwhelmed by all the brands.

Seven Deadly Zins $13 at Costco. Columbia Crest Estate Syrah $8 Concannon Petite Syrah $8 (Their Reserve at about $20 is worth it but difficult to find)