Sangiovese

"Michael Scarpitti", demonstrating his creative literary capabilities wrote.....

The trouble is Michael, that you write very little which is constructive, that we remember only the crap you expound!!!!!

Most of your posts either consist a link to someone else's opinion, or you write some stupidly held personal thoughts which are at complete odds with mainstream thinking and common sense.

You say: "drink wine - but don't taste" (most of us prefer to savour and appreciate any and everything we put in our mouths).

You say: "wine will not stand any exposure to air, so put the cork straight back in the bottle" - whereas most of us agree that the only thing which should have a cork stuffed back into it is you!!!!!

You say "Italian wines are the only ones worth drinking", whereas people with open minds appreciate all wines from all countries, and are willing to concede that no matter how much we think we know, there is always someone who knows more - and there is always more to learn.

You are obviously incapable of putting your own thoughts into words, because you never taste anything - you just mix food and wine and swallow, with no real sense of passion or emotion which you wish to share.

If you think that we, morons of the wine world as we are, should drink more Italian wines, convince us!!!!!

Using your knowledge and passion, tell us why we should search high and low for these wines - use passion, not insults.

And use your own words - not someone else's.

Then again, I know from experience you have the attention span of an ant, and you cannot even read more than five lines without your eyes glazing over - because you feel another insult coming on.

Get a life, Michael !!!!!!!

So every post in a thread needs to be a direct response to the OP's original post huh? Hmm...are you the moderator here? Good grief. It's a discussion between friendly people...get over it already! Enjoy the wine, the people and maybe learn something. Or...you could just whine as you have. For me, I'd rather enjoy wine.

As for your question, because many of us enjoy the US sangiovese style. If you don't then so be it. Funny thing about people. They don't all like the same thing.

Who put the 'Troll Wanted' sign out to which you responded anyways?

To this I can only reply that the basic approaches to wine-making are different in different countries. In F_____, they have some ridiculous idea that the best wines will always come from a few selected plots of land. In fact, the winemaker has much more say in the final product. In Italy, crap wine and fantastic wine may be made from grapes grown in the same area, even in the same vineyard. What matters is the maker's approach and care. The really important thing worth knowing is the wine-maker, above all else.

I recently had the pleasure of finding a fantastic wine - Avulisi - from Sicily. It is made from Nero d'Avola grapes by Santa Tresa, and is IGT. Apparently, there are not many DOC's in Sicily, so even the best wines carry the IGT designation.

I have had Nero d'Avola from several different wineries (including Regaleali), and I can say that Avulisi is in a league of its own. It is very rich, extremely concentrated, intensively flavored, well-structured, and well-balanced. You can get low-end Nero d'Avola from Petraio for $5, but they don't even taste like the same grape! By the way, the Petraio is an outstanding buy, but Avulisi is another animal altogether.

The wine world is unfortunately dominated by what I call the "F_____ model". I say 'unfortunately' because many wines from other wine-producing countries don't fit that mold. You cannot treat Italian wines like F_____ ones. If you say you like to 'breathe' your Pomerol or Médoc, go right ahead. I will breathe my Cannonau, Barbera, Velletri, Primitivo, Taurasi, Nero d'Avola, or Carignano del Sulcis.

To expect Italian wine to fit the F_____ model is absurd and stupid. Italian wines and cooking are closely intertwined. The role of wine in Italy is different. It is approached much less dogmatically, much less theoretically. It was until recent times mostly a peasant's wine, and still largely is. The snobbery that characterises the F_____ is almost entirely absent. In the south especially, one finds bull-headed traditionalists.

What area of the worl has the greatest potential for wine-making? Sicily.

You heard it here first, my man.

What other areas of the world are you knowledgeable with in regards to wine-making potentials?

I should say "untapped potential". Sicily has nearly all the ideal conditions for wine-making. The troubles are largely attitudes, the Mafia, and politics.

Such as?

Try putting sangiovese and IGT into wine-searcher or google

"Michael Scarpitti", wrote .....

Wow, Michael, do you know what you have just done - you have made a reasoned argument - I am really impressed - and not one insult.

No, I tend to think that this is not just a French phenomenon - it is generally held word wide.

And probably not without good reason.

When any country has a winemaking history dating back to Roman times (Italy, France, Spain, Germany are all included) it is inevitable that experience gained over centuries will dictate that certain sites will be better than others.

And hey, every one of the abovementioned countries turn out more than their fair share of crap wines.

I do not believe that you would have any argument from anyone contributing to this forum in this respect.

And you believe that this is not the case anywhere in the winemaking world? I have never read anyone here saying that just because a wine comes from any geographic region it is automatically good - far from it - just as occurs in Italy where there are areas which turn out zillions of litres of rubbish, exactly the same situation exists in Bordeaux and many other regions of Southern France.

We have had this discussion many time here on afw that the "industrial producer" is not interest in producing a quality product - they just want the government subsidies.

Again, I agree - the skill and passion of the winemaker is paramount - whether you are talking about Italy or New Zealand or Chile or Spain.

I personally have been lucky enough to have visited with many wonderful artisans in places like South Africa - where, believe me, the vast majority of, what masquerades as "wine" is plonk for the masses.

The difference between you and I is that I believe that this world is such a tiny place and is shrinking.

I have wonderful wines like (Malbec) from Argentina: or some of the most elegant and floral Rieslings from Mosel.

Likewise, I am fortunate that with a 2 hour drive, I have access to a small importer who does bring in to NZ a small range of Italian wines like Dedalo Ottavianello Rosso or Villa Cafaggio Chianti or Masi Campofiorin (both personal favourites.)

But this same company also imports Valtravieso from Ribera del Duero, Spain and some brilliant Rioja.

But, I also love the Dom. Santa Duc they import from Gigondas - not for any other reason than I like it - a lot!!!!!

NZ has a population 1/75th the size of the US - there is no way that a wide range of these wines will ever make it downunder (although I must say that, because Australia has a large immigrant Italian population, they have acess to a much wider range of Italian wines than NZ.)

You see, this is where you and I have a fundamental disagreement - I do not see that French influence outside of France - I know that Australia makes excellent Australian Shiraz - they are not trying to emulate Rhone.

And yes, there are now winemakers (in NZ and Australia) who are blending Viognier into Shiraz - but not to make French lookalikes - they are just expanding their winemaking horizons.

I personally know one of the most innovative young winemakers in South Australia - Joseph Grilli is of Italian extraction. He is not trying to make Italian wines - although he has planted Sangiovese and Nebbiolo, they are made distinctly Australian.

His "Moda" is Cabernet Sauvignon and Merlot, where the grapes are dried - not to the same extent as Amarone, but sufficient to add a concentrated dimension to his wine which is his expression of his little corner of South Australia.

New Zealand is not trying to make Sancerre - our Sauvignon Blanc is so individual that many other countries are trying to make Marlborouigh Sauvignon.

I think that you place far too much emphasis on the influence on France which is simply not warranted.

But no-one has ever suggested that you should treat Italian wines like French - or Spanish or anywhere else.

And please don't suggest that some Italian wines (Barolo springs to mind) do not benefit from exposure to air.

Yes, I totally agree the relationship between (regional) wine and food in intertwined - centuries of past isolationism has seen to this - but, that does not mean that a wonderful Chianti should not be consumed with a nice rare sirloin and garden salad - if that is my choice!

Again, in this modern age, not all Italian winemakers are village artisans.

And believe me, I have visited wineries all over the world where snobbery was alive and well - this is not limited to France.

Don't worry NZ has its share of snobby bastards!

In fact, the opposite is true in my experience - just last year I was in the South of France - the reception this mere Kiwi got from several small wineries I visited was a world away from snobbish.

The generosity of their hospitality was heartwarming - and on the couple occasions I opened a NZ bottle of wine, their acceptance was one of wonder.

No Michael, I shall defend your right to limit your wine drinking experience any way you choose, but ultimately, one day you may find out just how much you have missed.

Winemaking does not start and finish in Italy, or France or the US - or anywhere else.

It is an international journey. It is simply your choice how far you wish to travel.

Me, I want to go all the way.

Regards

It is? Is the USA, NZ, AUS, Brazil, Chile, MX and many others part of that world you speak of? In those and many other countries winemakers decide whats best to grow on their land.

So nothing new for centuries huh? Guess again. The industry continually learns and improves. Much through skilled winemakers breaking from tradition. While there are failures, such innovation has its rewards as well.

Untapped? HAve you been to Sicily recently? Or to a major wine fair, where theSicilian stand tends to be the biggest one there? I would hardly call Sicilian wine potential untapped...

miles wrote in news:BtSDg.898$rT5.223@fed1read01:

OK?

Winemaking styles change the technology changes somewhat, though the basic process remains recognizable even if the equipment does not. I still stand with St Helier on the issue of successful vinyards. Some plots are just better, sure plonk can be made from good grapes, but only the best produce the best. Garbage in garbage out. I will teke the Hermitage or Grand Cru Chablis form Grenouilles.thank you.

But what we've seen in the US is that certain areas specialize in certain grapes. Why? Because you get better wine that way. How many Napa Valley Pinot Noirs and Santa Barbara Cabernet Sauvignons have you had recently? ;-) That's what St. H. is talking about: with experience, growers learn what grows well where. If you think about it, we're even seeing the emergence of "grand cru"-type status to certain vineyards. The Eisele and To-Kalon vineyards are renowned for cabernet (and, formerly, Martha's Vineyard) and the Rochioli and Pisoni vineyards for Pinot Noir. Give us another couple of hundred years of experience and we might be able to create an 1855-type classification of properties (not that we're likely to).

Don't read more into his words than what he was saying. He said that experience is a useful teacher, not that that's all there is to know. Don't do a Scarpitti on us, Miles.

Mark Lipton

It's beginning to show its tremendous potential.

The point is that good wines do not have to be produced on a particular region of land and no other. Sure some areas are better than others for a particular varietal. However, there are many such areas that are ideal and not just one. Furthermore different regions often produce different unique styles. For instance, Chardonnay produced in the Napa Valley region of California are generally of a different style than those produced in Oregons Willamette Valley. I like both styles. No need for the absurd notion that good wines from a particular varietal can only be made in a particular region.

Sure thats true. But why get hung up on a single region and say thats the only one that can produce a great wine from a particular varietal? There are also great Pinot Noirs from Oregon. There are great Zinfandels from Napa, Amador, Sonoma, Paso Robles etc. There are great Chardonnays from many regions in California, Oregon, Washington and more. Point is there are numerous regions that are ideal for a particular varietal each producing unique styles for differing tastes. A Pinot from Oregon is of a different style than from Santa Barbara but both can be equally great. A purist may say only one region can produce the correct traditional style. I disagree with that notion.

I could add more than wine-making: also the combination of wine and food.

Then why does only F_____ have the Grand Cru designation? Italy's DOCG is not comparable. It is founded on results.

I don't follow you. Learning the wines of even a region takes time. How can one expect to learn ALL the wines of the major producing countries without spending a fortune and ruining one's liver? I therefore devote my wine-buying to Italy alone (usually; I have had some Spanish wines too, which were gifts). I have tried a variety of Nero d'Avola wines, and find a great variety of styles and quality.

See if you can get the Avulisi.

I don't mean only F_____ grapes, but the F_____ approach to wine. It is different from the Italian.

I mean the F_____ approach, not just F_____ grapes.

Nope. NO wine benefits from exposure to air except very immature wines.

Do what you will. I am trying to learn more about Italian regional wines and cooking, by making feats that feature numerous dishes and wines from selected regions. One dinner will be Sicilian, the next northern, then southern, Tuscan, etc.

Of course this is true, but they are still out there, and I want their wines!

I am missing nothing. if I am preparing regional Italian dishes, why would I not want to match them with wines of that region ?

Tuscany is the home of Sngiovese, and all wines made from that grape would have to use Tuscan wines as the reference point.

Tuscany is the home of Sangiovese, and all wines made from that grape would have to use Tuscan wines as the reference point.