Sangiovese

Yes, I agree. What's more, in good wine the varietal is not nearly as important as the terroir.

Comparing Condrieu from Condrieu and from other parts of the world, one finds similarities at the most very basic level, so the comparison is rather pointless.

Same with Sangiovese, you can get good Sangio outside Tuscany, it is totally different, and demanding a comparison to a REFERENCE Sangio (allegedly tuscan) just shows how crude one's understanding of wine is.

Grenache from Sardinia is quite interesting, so is Grenache from Chateauneuf du Pape. Yes they have something in common, but by UC's ravings one should now go pay a visit to Mariano Murru of Argiolas and give him 3 month's written notice to get his wines in line with those of Chateau Rayas, or else the committee will do something to him...

Almost all grapes in wide use were first cultivated in a small area, then transported to other areas. In cases where the tranport took place centuries ago, the grapes have already diverged from the parent stock. They are no longer the same grapes. Grapes taken from Greece 3000 years ago to Italy have evolved. If Sangiovese's origins are Greek, that is irrelevant. We don't have to use any Greek wine as a reference. Likewise with Cannonou: it is no longer Grenache.

Now, we are talking about taking 20th c Tusacn Sangiovese stocks and transpanting them somewhere else. Wines made from those stocks would have to be compared to the wines from the home territory, because the grapes have not had time to evolve.

That's what I'm saying, Mike! Sangiovese from somewhere else is not going to be like Brunello, Vino Nobile, or Chianti!

The grapes are not that important, terroir will reveal large differences that make varietal similarities irrelevant. In good wine, that is.

OK, so then why use ONE as reference? Since I agree that they are different?

"Michael Scarpitti" wrote .....

Nope - wrong again Michael - there is some wonderful Nebbiolo produced in Australia.

"Mike Tommasi" wrote .....

In the (hopefully), temporary absence of our resident pedant Ian Hoare, may I offer the following correction..

"Comparing Condrieu from Condrieu and *Viognier* from other parts of the world ..."

;-))))

Close, milud: "Comparing *Viognier* from Condrieu and from other parts of the world ..."

Mark Lipton pedant-in-training

The Tuscan wines have a certain similarity based on their composition. Chianti is almost identical to Vino Nobile, while Brunello is much richer. But they're all identifiably Tuscan. Right?

"Mark Lipton" skrev i melding news:ebt4v5$26e$ snipped-for-privacy@mailhub227.itcs.purdue.edu...

Now, isn't agreed that Condrieu is way overrated? Btw, I did have a Viognier today, from Chile. A nice little wine, with the floral characteristics, but just a quaffing wine :-) I don't see any reason why some region somewhere shouldn't produce a Sangiovese surpassing the Tuscany ones - but then it would be compared to the 'original' wouldn't it? Anders

Thank you learned one !!!!!

Oh, really? Send me a bottle and I'll try it. I'm sure there are wonderful NZ Nero d'Avolas, too.....

"Michael Scarpitti" wrote .....

Oh spare my days Michael

(1) You live in Ohio: i.e. importation controlled by State = if he ever ventured into Ohio, his Lordship could be arrested and shipped to Guantanamo Bay for having imported the alcohol on his breath!!!!! (2) You drink ONLY Italian wine - you would not drink Australian wine, no matter how good. For goodness sake, if you chose to be narrow minder, remain so, less we mere antipodeans should get confused.

I would try it if given the chance, just to see what it was like.

No Michael, you only drink Italian wines and that is that.

We cannot have you widening your horizons in the name of curiosity.

The Sicilian industry will be shaking in their boots at the thought of such heresy.

Do you have DNA testing to PROOVE that Sangiovese ORIGINATED in Tuscany or Central Italy??

BTW, I believe the Species Vinifera originated somewhere around the Caspian and Black Sea area. By your logic, this would be the MOST ideal area for wines made from such varieties as Merlot, Sauvignon Blanc, Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, and yes even Sangiovese. Do you see my point?? Tell it to the French, Australians, Chileans, Argentinians, Australians etc. Your logic is flawed.

Evolution does NOT mean better tasting. Evolution strives to make sure the species is successful and can perpetuate itself. Evolution doesn't give a damn about how the product tastes to humans. In fact, evolution MIGHT mean that grapes develop a certain taste or characterictics that discourages domestication if that characteristic helps with the reproduction and spread of the species. Biology 101, I believe. With more vineyards planting Sangioves, expect Tuscan Sangioves to PERHAPS take a back seat. You picked the standard; you should be prepared for the results.