Screw caps vs. corks

Is that serious or a joke?

M.

The part you have quoted here is a joke. The fact I had a bottle of wine that was TCA for Aniv. was not a joke.

However it is possible that if you drink to much your count is wrong and only 1%-3% of the wine is tainted with TCA and you cannot remember. :-)

Dick, I am talking about blind panel tastings where my figures come from. Of course we spit!

M.

Hello, my name is Allyn. I am not a wine drinker but have interest in TCA. Would any know whether corked (natural), wine stored in bottles upside down from the moment of bottling until the moment of opening experience TCA? And is Champagne and sparkling wine stored in a different way than most wines in bottles? Thanks for the help.

Allyn Johnston

"commercialcanner" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@v46g2000cwv.googlegroups.com:

Champagne for much of it's life is bottled under crown caps like a beer. During this time the bottles are top down (about 20 degrees) so that the yeast will accumulate in the neck of the bottle so when the wine is disgorged the sediment will pop out. It is released shortly after this process so in effect, yes to you question.

There's no reason why the orientation of the bottle should affect TCA contamination in any way. I suppose that if the bottle were stored upright for the entirety of its lifetime the level of TCA contamination might be lower, but since the human detection threshold is in the low part per billion it would be tough to keep it below the average detection threshold.

Mark Lipton

Such a pity!

Strange interests around.

Yes, of course.

Champagne should be stored on its side, like any other wine.

M.

Thank you for your help. I am interested in all taints in acidified food products. I have often wondered whether taints begin with yeast/mold spores, air and humidity and a growing medium. It would seem possible that a natural cork could easily collect a few spores then with added humidity (upright after filling) and air, these spores could activate. An upside down bottle once filled perhaps could reduce the conditions for the lodged spores to activate. If Champagne bottles are stored immediately after filling nearly upside down perhaps they would have less taint because of poor growing conditions. Likewise it would also seem possible that a smoother surface on a synthetic cork would not be a good growing medium for a spore. Surely there must be some test results available.

Allyn Johnston

Sorry, no. Champagne bottles during their production are stored horizontally right from the beginning ("sur lattes"). It's only for the final six weeks to three months before disgorgment that they are put in a vertical position in the riddling tables ("pupitres") or the pallet cages ("gyropalettes"). During all this time 99.99% of champagne is not in contact with cork, but with the synthetic insert in the crown cap ("bidule") where the lees are collected after riddling.

After disgorgement and addition of the liqueur de dosage they are bark cork stoppered and usually immediately boxed horizontally.

M.

A number of wineries in Australia are now re-applying crown seals, and this is the final closure offered for sale. Disregarding the aesthetic and taint issues, they are a lot easier to open without damaging the ceiling or inadvertently hosing your significant other - no pop, but a satisfying sigh...

See:

Whomever I talk to tells me it would be impossible, the ceremony and the pop are indispensible essentials. Ridiculous when I count a solid 17 percent cork taint rate from our last comprehensive champagne tasting back in 2003: 16 bottles from 93 opened. I even am corresponding with a champagne grower who might apply crown caps for me - something completely illegal, since by law a bark cork is required for any recipient larger than a 250ml bottle.

Crown caps, however, have made their appearance with semi-sparklers ("frizante") from Austrian producer Szigeti. They have their own range, but also "champagnize" producers' personalized wines.

M.

Indeed, there is a lot known about the sources of TCA in wine. It mostly arises from the metabolism of chlorinated phenols by mold (aspergillus mostly). Chlorinated phenols arise in large part from treatment of corks with hypochlorite disinfectants. The cork industry has invested considerable time and effort to try and eradicate the problem, yet the problem still persists. It's also true that corks aren't the sole source of TCA. There are a number of good articles on the subject on the Web. Here's one:

HTH Mark Lipton

Thanks again for the help. I will check in with a few more questions sometime in the near future. Allyn Johnston