Variations in Humidity

Salut/Hi Xyzsch,

le/on 23 Feb 2004 04:39:27 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

Frankly Tom, I'd not fret about the humidity. If you've got some bottles which you want to store for a _very_ long time (>20 years) then you might consider waxing the necks. I don't knowe about its availability in the USA, but bottling wax (like sealing wax) is freely available here in France. All you'd need to do is melt the wax, and one by one, dip each bottle into the wax, deep enought to cover the whole capsule (clean off first, of course). Your corks won't dry out then.

But honestly, I'd not bother.

Bottle wax is readily available from any home winemaking supply retailer. I've got several colors in my winemaking shop, and use it occasionally for a decorative touch in finishing some of my wines.

Typical source would be

Bart

periodically,which

Thanks for the tip Ian with bottle wax.

Silver Oak Winery sells a Port at the vineyard only. They have the melted wax over the top. Its a real pain in the ass to remove however.

I thought they did of for decorations only. Now I find out there is another reason for such wax.

thanks

periodically,which

Hi, Ian -

Are you suggesting that he should first remove the capsule, or that the outside of the capsule should be cleaned? It sounded like the former, but the latter makes more sense. The metal (or metallized plastic) capsule is a better vapor barrier material than wax. The function of the wax would be to fill the gap-osis between the capsule and the neck of the bottle, as well as any pinholes at the top of the capsule. Also, the embedded capsule would make removal of the wax easier - although that's still a messy process.

That's true - but they may still leak under the wax. I've seen that before.

Me neither. Trying to seal leaks from the side _opposite_ the pressure is an exercise in futility, as anyone schooled in engineering knows.

Tom S

Salut/Hi Tom S,

le/on Mon, 23 Feb 2004 13:38:21 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

Oops, Tom, well spotted. When I said "clean off first", I meant to say that the whole neck end should be cleaned up, but the capsule left in position. It wasn't util you pointed it out that I saw the ambiguity in my language. Grr. I hate sloppy language.

As long as it has no holes, and I've seen capsules with holes. For me, the use of wax is simply to reinforce the work of the capsule and reduce even further the loss of moisture.

True. Though again, with a bit of practice, it can be done reasonably easily

- if the capsule was left in position.

I _think_ you'll find that a leaker in these circumstances is down to a fairly badly failed cork, and/or badly cleaned up bottle neck. Wax is a pretty goodf seal on celan glass - which is why the wax should entirely cover the capsule - and further.

Chuckle.... Yes, there's some truth in that too. As I tried to suggest to Tom, I doubt if 50% - or even less - humidity is going to have any noticeable effect on any except VERY long keepers.

sorry to jump in this discussion but doesn't the bottle need to breathe to age properly?

Joe

Not unless you're aging vinegar!

Tom S

Taht's an extremely wide-spread urban legend, misconception, prejudice - call it whatever you want.

M.

"Joe Ae" wrote in news:XUQ_b.11575$ snipped-for-privacy@news20.bellglobal.com:

Now you have entered one of the grand debates! To stelvin or not to Stelvin. (a screw top by any other name would seal as tight)

That's the million dollar question!

It seems to all boil down to tradition. Hundreds of years ago, cork was a "high tech" closure for bottles of anything - mainly because nothing better was available; not because of its intrinsic superiority. Nowadays, cork is used mostly for sealing wine bottles and making flooring. Most other producers of liquid goods have migrated to _better_ closures for their wares, yet the wine industry stubbornly clings to what is well known to be a problematical material - at _best_.

It's a chicken or egg problem: Wineries are convinced that their customers won't accept a change to a better material/method, and the customers insist on cork because they think it's superior - mostly because it has been used by the wineries for centuries. It's going to take a major education program to change that perception on both sides of the equation. The fact that Gallo gave screw capped wines a bad reputation 50 years ago only exacerbates the problem.

All that, plus wine drinkers like to hear that "pop!" when the bottle is opened...

Tom S

Many Australian producers are starting to use non-cork closures. Outside of the US where it was tried - fine wine markets seem to be accepting of it, but for the middle-range wines, it seems a harder sell.

These comments are utterly unofficial (perhaps even forged!) but I forward for your personal interest. -- MH

Monday, May 13, 2002

Yesterday at Ridge Vineyards, Paul Draper (enthusiastic and gracious as usual) made informal remarks about cork alternatives that I found intriguing, and I pass them on for others interested.

He said that there were data from France, and also limited experimental data from Ridge, supporting a conclusion that the small but nonzero air exchange occurring through conventional corks is important in the flavor development of long-term wines like his Ridge Monte Bello Cabernet, as opposed, he said, to wines vinified, as many are now, to acquire most of their final flavor before they are bottled (he referred to deliberate aeration as well as steps in the forming of the wine to make them more accessible young). For those numerous latter wines, an airtight closure would make less of a difference. At Ridge there has been some experimentation with plastic corks, which he said maintained an airtight seal and led to less of the desirable flavor evolution. He is planning to run experiments with screw tops as well but "that requires a special machine we don't have yet." He also cited evidence elsewhere from overseas that the screw-topped bottles, if stored upright, are not as airtight as the plastic corks and may therefore be closer to real cork in effect.

I thought this interesting in view of the unqualified support for airtight closures that I've heard from a couple of other winemakers in the Santa Cruz Mountains. In the course of frequent regular organized tastings with conventional corks in recent years I've noticed remarkably many defective "corked" bottles, certainly one in 20 and sometimes it seems more like one in 10, which sparks curiosity about reliable alternatives.

Salut/Hi Max Hauser,

Thanks for posting this.

le/on Tue, 24 Feb 2004 21:09:02 -0800, tu disais/you said:-

How interesting. I was unaware of such research.

I have to say that this more or less confirms what I've been saying here fairly consistently.

For me the $64k (I'm a traditionalist) question is this.

"If demand for cork bottle closures plummets, will the manufacturers be able to guarantee that the few remaining corks sold will be TCA free, to all intents and purposes?" If they can, then I can see a long term future for cork closures. If they can't, then I suspect we're seeing the end of an era. I DO so hope that we aren't throwing out the baby of graceful long term aging with the bathwater of corked wines.

He said that there were data from France, and also limited experimental data >from Ridge, supporting a conclusion that the small but nonzero air exchange occurring through conventional corks is important in the flavor development of long-term wines like his Ridge Monte Bello Cabernet, as opposed, he said, to wines vinified, as many are now, to acquire most of their final flavor before they are bottled (he referred to deliberate aeration as well as steps in the forming of the wine to make them more accessible young). How interesting. I was unaware of such research.

I have to say that this more or less confirms what I've been saying here fairly consistently.

For me the $64k (I'm a traditionalist) question is this.

"If demand for cork bottle closures plummets, will the manufacturers be able to guarantee that the few remaining corks sold will be TCA free, to all intents and purposes?" If they can, then I can see a long term future for cork closures. If they can't, then I suspect we're seeing the end of an era. I DO so hope that we aren't throwing out the baby of graceful long term aging with the bathwater of corked wines.

And now comes news of a new glass stopper being developed in Germany that will have a little more appeal than the screw cap.

--------------000201050404010201020303--

Very interesting, Max. It also reinforces my view that Paul Draper is one of the most interesting people in the California wine business. FWIW, I believe that there has been research done at UC Davis that concluded that the aging of wine involves both aerobic and anaerobic processes, implying that some amount of oxygen is essential for proper aging.

Mark Lipton

Sorry, no, please stop these urban legends!

M.

That's exactly the question. Consumers like cork, says the industry.

M.

Your source, Michael? What I'm referring to are the chemical reactions involved in the aging, not some recycled tale of breathing. I *know* that I've seen it. If I can find a source of it on the web, I will post it.

Mark Lipton