Sweet-wine dilemma

The port would seem better at the end, so the english way would seem to be right, cheese after dessert. But try the other way, why go by rules, especially since there are no rules...

Mike

I seriopusly beg to differ: Cheese after dessert tastes only sour and bitter.

If you don't have sweet wine with cheese (which would be the exception in this part of the world), it's even more clear: finish the red wine with the cheese (less recommended) or finish the white with the cheese (highly recommenden) or have an off-dry white with the cheese (equally highly recommended), and then have dessert with sweet wine. In that way the serving order is even more evident, because turning back from sweet wine to dry invariably kills the latter.

My words.

Yes, there are: the inherent logic of not going back from sweet to dry/salty/sour, be it wine or food.

M.

OK, but the original posts specify some unmoveable constraints, there will be a TBA with dessert, and there will be an old port with cheese, and I guess the person will bring a blue.

My point being that, much as I agree that salty after sweet is not easy (but not that bad...), TBA after port might be a problem (I said might).

Let's call them recommendations. IOW, rules in the french sense, not in the austrian sense... ;-))

If the dessert consists of, say, home made kugelhupf with roasted almonds and/or winter fruit (goes well with TBA IMHO), I see no problem having cheese with port after that. But I may be completely wrong.

Mike

Depends on the wine served with Gugelhupf (that's the way we spell it), and goes only in the case cheese/port.

But afais there is no disagreement in general.

M.

None at all. Now we just need to get invited...

Mike

PS: Michael, you are needed on iacchos, a question on Austrian wine...

Just a suggestion, but what about the desert wine with a sorbet in between your soup and fish?

The object of the sorbet is to separate things, I am not sure it is necessary between soup and fish, but with a sweet wine you are making things even more complicated...

Mike

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Cheese/port, then dessert/tba. Just take a 10-15 minute break after the port, serve a glass of water and people will be ready to go.

Anders

I know about what level of sweetness to expect from the Port. However, the TBA to be brought was not named. I have found that TBAs from Germany or elsewhere can cover a very wide range of apparent sweetness and richness. A TBA from the Saar that barely meets the minimum sugar content required and that has much acid can be overwhelmed by some dishes of even moderate sweetness. However some TBAs from the Rheingau, Pfalz, and elsewhere in very great years such as 1959 can far exceed the minimum sugar content and be thick and nearly as sweet as honey. There would be very few dishes too sweet to overpower these. I find matching a TBA with a sweet dish very difficult unless I have tasted the TBA before and know the balance of sugar, acid, and intensity of bouquet that it has. I have tasted one or two TBAs from 1959 that were so rich that they could even stand up to honey-soaked pastry from Greece and the Near East, although I do not think I would like the match for other reasons. Usually I would rather have a top TBA alone, as it seems complete and anything else is just a distraction.

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Then the problem is solved. You have the TBA alone and the cheese course can be had with the remnants of the red wine followed by the Porto with the dessert. I'm sure they will mail the bottle to you so they will provide no further distractions as they finish the meal.

pavane

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My experience with Austrian and German TBA is that they should be served without any food; these rare wine deserves to be enjoyd alone, so you don't have to divide your attention. For desert, I would rather recommend an icewine (or a sweet Loire-wine) - except for "honey-soaked pastry from Greece", for which I have no suggestion (exept perhaps water?) In this country (Denmark) port is often served with desert - however, I do prefer my port after-dinner. Considerering dessert and cheese: I'm in favor of cheese before dessert. However, as hyperdigistion is an increasing problem in the western world, one could choose to end the meal with dessert or cheese, but not with both.

TBA's are truly great wines, even the "cheaper" ones, in my oppinion. Rieslins are considered the best, but Scheurebe is among my favorite grapes. From ortega rather good TBA can be made, at reasonable prices.

Henning

PS "warm" in the reply-address shuold be "hot"....

While I agree that TBA and SGN and all other forms of botrytis wine is not dessert wine, I disagree with the concept of meditation wine. Having these wines with food is NOT dividing your attention. The pleasure of matchng food to the best sweet wines is something I enjoy very much.

I think that precisely because they are so rare, those rare times when you get to drink these wines they might as well be good ones. Cheap sweet wine is to me sorse than cheap dry wine. TBA only works when it is well crafted, and that does not come cheaply. Unfortunately.

Mike

Very strange - for some reason or another, I don't get any Iacchos mails anymore (without having changed anything in the settings). Can you mail me the question? My address is in the "reply to" line of the header.

Thank you,

M.

I quite agree. I have been disappointed with some Lenz Moser BA's and TBA's; they just fail to offer anything but sweetness, there does not seem to be any complexity or balance to those.

This also applies to the one Sauternes I've had, 1995 Ch. Malle. Quite a let-down to my expectations.

Then again, in about the same price range a sweet Tokaji, even from the co-op era, will always please me.

Cheers,

-Topi Kuusinen, Finland

Agreed. I'll bring the port. Which type would you normally serve?

I have done a big Port tastign recently: 65 different wines, a more or less complete survey of what the premium port segment loks like in Austria. The result (minus wines scoring less than 90).

93 Taylor's

20 Years Old

30 & 40 Years Old

Colheitas

LBV - Late Bottled Vintage

Vintage

The only older vintage in the lineup was Snademan - and it performed beautifully. But the Dow was absolutely fabuslous, an unanimous no. 1 in the blind tasting.

Serve the port & chees last. the cheese will cleanse the pallette & one can savor the old port more fully (a few walnuts would be a wonderful addition to the port & cheese. Am I invited? Sounds great. LOL

After Malvern Hill Pres. Lincoln visited with Gens. Mc Clellen & Sumner as well as Col. Nugent (Commander of the Irish Brigade.)` A Lt. James. M. Birmingham, Adjutant of the 88th N. Y. came from a swim in the James R. & with his underwear drying on his body saw them talking. He ducked behind some cover to eavesdrop in time to see & hear Pres. Lincoln (overcome with emotion at the bravery & sacrifice of the Irish Brigade.) as he lifted a corner of the 69th N. Y.'s flag, kissed it & said "God bless this Irish flag" From Joseph Bilby's book "Remember Fontenoy" on the Irish Brigade Lancaster Civil War Round Table Website