I'm trying to understand better how food and wine is paired together, so I've got a few questions which I hope someone might answer:
First, is it a pairing between a food category and a wine variety? (eg. beef with Merlot, chocolate with Cabernet).
Or does it go into further detail based on the type of food? (eg. with cheese, Cabernet or Beaujolais is always good, but with feta cheese, Beaujolais is better, whilst with blue cheese, Cabernet is better).
Is it enough to just specify the wine variety or do you also need to go into further detail specifying which wines go with a particular food type?
When preparing a meal with various ingredients, these different ingredients pair with different wines. Do you pair the meal with one of these wines or could it be a completely different wine altogether?
When preparing a complete menu (appetizer, main course, dessert), would you suggest to offer wines according to the course? (eg. with a shrimp cocktail I'd offer champagne, then maybe a Merlot with beef, and finally maybe a Port with chocolate)
Wines and foods have evolved together in the various regions of Italy, for example, so wines of Campania and dishes of Campania are a good match, and the wines of Piemonte and the dishes of Piemonte go together, etc.
If you are unfortunately not dealing with Italian regional cooking, the best rule of thumb is that complex dishes go with simpler wines, and complex wines go with simpler dishes.
Really, it is very much simpler to go with the Italian regional approach.
regional dishes never developed in an effort to match wine. Traditional regioanl italian dishes developed out of hunger and the easiest solution to filling your stomach. And wines from over 30 years ago do not resemble in any way the wines available today. So most so-called traditional wine pairings are totally accidental. Sometimes they work, mainly because the matches have become culturally acceptable and the palates have evolved to like them, but most regional matches are not easy.
Too simple, but it's a start. Think about the aromas of the food and those of the wine, either create contrast or play on creating harmony. Strengthen some flavours, or try to tone done those that are too present. Check the balance of the wine for its compatibility with the fattiness, sweetness, sourness or bitterness of the food.
Cheese is about as broad a category as wine. Be aware that 99% of red wine and cheese matches would be improved by using white wine instead. Most cheese do not go well with red wine.
You can work with varietal for a while, but you will quickly get bored, and then you will discover terroir.
Usually with the predominant ingredient.
Start with lighter wines and work your way to bigger wines. If you have to go back to a lighter wine, serve a salad or something to cleanse palate. Put dry wines before sweet ones.
Pairing food and wine is an inexact science, probably closely related to alchemy. That said, there are three rough thoughts on pairing:
1.) flavor profiles of each, food and wine
2.) affinity flavors in food, which do not exist in wine, but works well together
3.) texture of food v wine, i.e. mouthfeel. A silky textured dish will often pair well with a silky wine.
After that, one also has to consider the additional ingredients in the food dish, and any sauce that might accompany the dish. This is often even more important that the dish itself.
On to the rest of your questions. I like to pair each dish with a wine. Sometimes there is overlap, but often there is not. If dining as a couple, my wife and I will usually look to the half-bottle selection and do the best we can. There, and the by-the-glass selections are usually the best - for two, that is. If we are dining with a group, or entertaining, I'll try for the best match per dish. Now, if everyone is ordering ala'cart, it can get tricky, and then the half-bottles are back, or I'll do a looser match for the majority and try and zero in for the odd entree. At home, or with pre-fixe menus, it's a lot easier. Only drawback is washing all the stemware!
With out going into any specifics, this is my take on a very simplified version of food and wine pairing.
Precisely. The wines evolved to match the local fare.
You obviously have a very narrow understanding of Italian regional cooking. Not all Italinas were contadini.
Some do, some don't.
Not all dishes are regional. Some are found all over the south or the north. The more localized the dish, the more likely a regional wine would be best. But always, simple wines with complex dishes, complex wines with simple dishes.
What is the cheese that would be in the remaining 1%? What is the best cheese for red wine? If too broad, what is the best cheese for Bordeaux? If still too broad, what is the best cheese for 1995 Ducru Beaucaillou? (that question is not meant to be silly, though sounds like it. Is it?)
Since I began enjoying wine with food regularly, it seems that salad sometimes ruins the enjoyment I get from subsequent courses. Somebody suggested that it's the vinegar in the dressing, and I have since stopped having salad (when dining out). Don't most salads have vinegar-based dressings? Would I be considered "correct" in avoiding them?
"Uranium Committee" in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com...
A friend who is a professional restaurant critic observed lately, and I think penetratingly, that small-time writing about food defines and expresses itself often via negativity. (We were talking about the syndrome of certain writers who freelance for local newspapers, and the concrete damage that they have done in recent years. But the discussion might be germane here too.) He mentioned writers who had expressed themselves regularly as too sophisticated for this restaurant, or intolerant of the imperfections of that one. (He also cited a local food newsgroup where a similar style can be found today.) I have noticed such trademark negativity also on some food forums today, including HTML sites.
Right now I cannot offer suggestions about food-wine pairing other than to endorse the practice. But here are some light quotations, to make amends (and by way of recommending the full text, in the second case).
-- Max H.
-- "No matter how thin you slice it, it's still baloney." -- Rube Goldberg, as quoted by Lee Roth in (about 15 years ago here on the Usenet). Goldberg was an engineer (Berkeley, 1904) best known for the mechanical contrivances in his cartoons.
-- Tatyana Tolstaya's 1993 review of a new English edition of a traditional Russian national cookbook (Molokhovets) was entertaining throughout for food fanatics, but especially when it degenerated in the last quarter into tirade and meditation on vodka. Here's a sample. (I omit her jab at people who drink Coca-Cola with food.)
"The American manner of drinking Vodka -- on an empty stomach and either warm, or diluted by being "on the rocks" -- is as destructive for humans as it is for the product. It's rather like drinking yesterday's Champagne from a tea cup. The whole point of vodka lies in the fact that a small jigger is swallowed quickly in one breath (it's poured from a bottle kept in the freezer), as if one were gulping fire, and that in the same instant one takes a bit of something very hot or spicy -- mushrooms, pickles, marinated pepper, salted fish, scalding borshch, hot sausages in tomato sauce -- it doesn't matter. Virtuosos don't eat, but sniff black bread (only black!) or the sleeve of an old jacket -- but it's hard to recommend this method in a country with a well-developed system of dry cleaners; it won't produce the same effect. . . .
"Vodka and _zakuski_ (appetizers) are theoretically indivisible. The word _zakuska_ denotes specifically food that is eaten with vodka, in order to temper its effect on the body. It's ridiculous to drink vodka without _zakuski._ You'll get drunk immediately, especially if you're hungry, and you won't be able to appreciate the dinner to come. . . . In combination, vodka and _zakuski_ stimulate the appetite, cheer the soul, warm you up, and prepare you for a feast."
[_New York Review of Books_ 21 Oct 1993 pp. 24-26. Not from online.]
Vincent, I'm not Mike. But my personal favorites with red would be aged Gouda (I mean 3 to 5 year aged), hard dry cheddar or jack cheeses, and other hard cheeses like Parmagiano Reggiano. While I think Mike's 99% might be overstating it, I'd agree if he said 85-90%. Dale
le/on Tue, 05 Oct 2004 03:54:07 GMT, tu disais/you said:-
I've answered these questions in my comment on Dale's article.
A little bit!! Though I did once hear "the world's best sommelier 1999", I think, it was, claim that THE perfect cheese for the Szepsy 1991 6 putts was a Bleu des Causses made by the cheesery "Beulet". I think that's pretty pretentious, but then I don't have either his palate nor his breadth of tasting experience..
I guess that if you were to see "perfect" matches, you would probably parallel increasing limitation of the wine with increasing precision of cheese.
Thus. Red wine hard cheese (HUGE but reasonably valid geralisation) Northern Red Rhone Parmesan style Crozes Hermitage 2 year old Parmigiano-Reggiano Jaboulet Hermitage La Chapelle 1962 A specific Stravecchione Parmigiani Reggiano.
But to be able to make that kind of precision, you would need either to have specialised for years, or to have stumbled on it by complete luck, I guess.
Agreed!! Unless you take GREAT care over it. I find (with apologies to my US based friends here) that the habit of serving a composed salad at the beginning of a meal, dressed with a sweetish creamyish dressing, so common in US restaurants, to be as unfriendly to the natural evolution of a meal, as is the french habit of serving foie gras with a sweet wine right at the beginning of the meal.
Correct shmorrect.
You have what your palate tells you works for you and stuff the idea of "correctness".
More seriously, and to come to the heart of your question, yes, the vinegar in most vinaigrette (french dressing) sauces as served with salads acts as the kiss of death to wine. But mayonnaise is scarcely better - even if I prefer it! - as it contains egg, which don't match wines well, AND vinegar, usually. When we make vinaigrette here, for a salad either to accompany or follow a meat course, which is how we prefer our salads, Jacquie has developed a recipe which uses little or _no_ ordinary wine vinegar. She uses quite a lot of proper french mustard (I believe you CAN find stuff that's edible in the States, though try to avoid the brownish mass produced products), a little walnut oil (crafstman produced, and VERY strong) quite a lot more of neutral oil, a slurp or two of moderate quality balsamic vinegar, (you don't need the $60/100 mls stuff here) and then if the dressing needs sharpening, a bit of white wine or lemon juice. Salt & pepper, conclude the vinaigrette, but she'll have rubbed the salad bowl with a cut clove of garlic first.
But of course that doesn't solve the problem of salads when eating out. If at a very good restaurant, I think I'd be tempted to engage the waiter in some dialogue here. What kind of acid ingredients are used in the dressing? Is there any vinegar? What kind? So go and ask please. In other words, make it clear that you are aware and concerned about the match with the wine. In your local Red Lob, avoid salad or ask for it undressed. What _I_ find difficult is to persuade the waitperson to leave the salad on the table till after I've eaten my meat, so I can have it when I want it.
le/on 4 Oct 2004 22:01:18 GMT, tu disais/you said:-
I often say that although I trained as a chemist, I decided to become a chef, as I prefer alchemy!
And as you say, quite correctly later, not just the main ingredient, but the others, and the way of preparing the dish.
To take a silly example, "beef". It has to be obvious to anyone that a wonderful slow smoked texan barbecued brisket is NOT going to match the same drinks as (an equally wonderful) beef bourguignon.
and which again can have a huge effect on the match with wine. I often pan fry duck magret (that's breast filets of duck fattened for foie gras), and serve it with a sauce. There's a whole variety of sauces that bring out different aspects of the flavour profile of the duck. From sharp blackcurrant sauce, via honey, peach, and other (too IMO) sweet fruity ingredients to a woodland sauce made by heavy reduction of dried cepes with stock, port wine and cream. All these food pairings have their effect on what wine will match best. In fact, my favourite way of serving duck magret is to bake it in coarse salt. That cocentrates the "ducky" flavours in the meat, and makes ANY sauce superfluous. And again, the match with wine is different.
Interesting. I'd not thought of this, and might in fact be inclined to go for a contrasting marriage.
Although I agree wholly with the main thrust of your answer, I would have specifically mentioned the "marriage of contrasts". The archetype of this is (IMO) blue cheese with a sweet wine. The powerful saltiness of one combines magically with the balance of sweetness/fruit/acidity of a very good sweet wine.
Yup. When we do our "normal" 5 course meal, we start with a soup (no wine goes, normally). We then go on to a starter and usually serve a dry white with it, though it could be a good characterful pink, or even a light red. Then for the main course where we may go for a very big white (with lightly sauced veal/chicken, for example) or a red, but all depends upon what aspect of the dish one wants to bring out. Then we "finish the red with the cheese" not really because it goes particularly well, but because people expect to here, and if you choose the right local cheeses, the marriage isn't awful. When peple are only paying €16 a meal, we can't afford to throw in a sweet wine, but when it's for friends, we'll try to serve a decent sweet wine for dessert, sometimes serving it half way through the cheese course, to give the blue cheese something to go with.
Grin. We're getting increasingly lazy and often simply rinse out the glass between wines, if the wines don't merit too much special treatment. Nice though it is to drink Henri Gouges Nuits les St Georges 1990, more often I'm serving Coteaux de Glanes or a nice red Bergerac from a wine box and they honestly won't show much better in a better glass. So I use the standard INAO tasting glasses, which are fine. Spiegelau do a similar one which is significantly better.
In my investigation of Spanish cheeses, I have found that I do not agree that Cabrales goes with ANY wine, red or white, despite protestations to the contrary by various Spaniards.
In fact on reflection, a lot of Cabrales would probably be best buried in the back yard (along side the Vacherin de Mont d'Or that is past it's 'due date') to keep the dog from rolling in it.
I will on special ocassions get lazy with the glassware, but my friends (and my wife) expect me to go "full boat," so my laziness seems to come less often lately .
As for the contrasts, YES, they can be a big part of the match. As with foie gras, I'll serve a sweet sticky to counter the saltiness. However, here I'm also back to the texture, silk on silk.
As for the cheese course, we too usually have an older big red, and I try my best to match that with the cheese, though, as in another thread, gravitate to most of my cheeses with whites. As stated there (Tom S ?), the aged cheddars and dry jack do pair nicely, though I try for ones less sharp so the wine is showcased, more than the cheese. Not that I mind strong cheeses, I just don't want a '70s Bordeaux lost amongst sharp cheeses.
I have got to extend one of my London trips and stop in and stay a bit with you. It sounds like the food, the wine, and the conversation would be worth sleeping on the floor in the cellar - root, not your WINE cellar, of course. I'd not like to have account for empty bottles in the AM .
Besides, this is more of a followup to the soup/salad pairings. We do a fresh greens, pear, walnut and crumbled blue cheese salad, with a pungent, slightly sweetish blue cheese dressing (I don't have the wife handy, or her recipe for it - sorry), and this pairs wonderfully with a favorite, though more rare each day Napa Chardonnay, Sullivan, especially one from the late 90's with some years in the cellar. Various older Montrachets pair nicely with the pear and the walnuts.
For soups, we tend toward mushrooms in broth (wife being mildly lactose intollerant) and these go with an OR PN nicely. However, it often means doing a red, before a white, but is not death to a dinner. Hearty pumpkin/squash soups also go with PN's (IMHO) or a smooth Syrah. Now, however, you get a heartier red, before the whites - a bit more touchy. In Summer we do some chilled melon soups and bubblies do the best, especially as they are often the base for these soups.
Just some passing pairings we'd had luck with. Hunt
Simply just pairing a wine, or beverage, with the soup, and/or salad. If one has control of the ingredients, it's not that difficult, but if one is at the mercy of a kitchen, then it can be a disaster, unless you can get either a good recommendation from the waitstaff, or a lot of information.
The location where the grapes are grown. It reflects the experience of the grapes from the micro-climate and soil conditions. Areas just a few yards apaprt can yield strikingly different grapes.
DrinksForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here.
All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.