TN: Jadot

] Went to a store tasting at Zachy's of Louis Jadot wines. I was running errands, ] stopped to grab a couple bottles from their sale, but managed to taste my way ] through most of the wines. Take notes with even more of a grain of salt than ] usual- small pours, and as always with store tastings I have no clue re ] decanting, etc. ] [snip notes]

These prices sure seem out of whack to me...

But my question was about the "barrel samples." presumably these had been bottled and shipped to the store? It seem to me that at this stage the wine is very volatile, my experience is that within a week or so a barrel can change radically in character. Anyone else concur?

Then, shock the wine at altitude, shake it up, leave it in a bottle for a week, who knows how close to the barrel it is, even as a snap shot?

Just pondering the concept of in-store barrel tastings... :)

-E

snipped-for-privacy@aol.comdamnspam (Dale Williams) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m20.aol.com:

Ok I'm a cheap wine guy but I really find this one a little offensive, made in a very oaky, for me, manner that suggests manufacture for the american market. There is little semblance to French wine in the Bourgogne for a few dollars less the Jadot Macon-Villages is a great QPR and a representative of the wines of the Maconaise.

rant mode off ;-)

I've probably been to dozens of store tastings featuring barrel samples. I agree with all the caveats. Which is why I usually (as in this case) don't offer even my usual shaky grades on barrel samples. But I do think they offer a snapshot, if a fuzzier snapshot than a finished product (in this case, the lead winemaker from Jadot was one of the pourers, so he must think it had some value).

While I don't think they are true visions of the finished product, they do give on a clue to such things as size/tannins, fruit focus (red or black, for instance), amount of oak, etc. When making decisions on pre-arrival buying of hard to get items (I usually wait, taste, and buy, but for certain small production items that's sometimes impossible), it's my personal preference to try barrel samples, I'd rather make a mistake based on my faulty tasting than just be a sheeple. Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

Fine rant. I just didn't find a lot of oak here (I have in some previous vintages, though I think I remember liking one other- the 2000?). I'm not a real querophile, and am usually quite sensitive to overoaking. Have you tried the 2002? There are a few possibilities here:

I liked it enough to pick up a bottle at a more reasonable store, we'll see what I think when I have a full bottle.

BTW, I agree the Macon-Villages is usually a pretty safe bet, has saved me in several restaurants! Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

snipped-for-privacy@aol.comdamnspam (Dale Williams) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m18.aol.com:

It is entirely possible that they are making this one a little less oaky and that would not be a bad thing. I just I might give it a try in the future. Without your note I would have given it a definite pass.

Hi Dale,

Yes, I see now you hadn't noted the barrel samples, honestly hadn't noticed it originally. I've never heard a winemaker be less than circumspect about such samples, so I suspect this was a combination of marketing and Zachy's wanting to keep their rep (apparently deserved if you're anyone to go by) for tastings.

As for the store prices, yes I suppose they are known to be quite high, although I've often seen some very good deals advertised in the NYT. I was commenting more generally on the Jadot prices. Put's me to mind of a recent comment in another thread, "what do you expect for $20?" I'm still of the opinion that it should buy a damn good bottle. These prices -- as for you, I guess -- just make the wines an unattainable luxury product for me. :(

] While I don't think they are true visions of the finished product, they do give ] on a clue to such things as size/tannins, fruit focus (red or black, for ] instance), amount of oak, etc. When making decisions on pre-arrival buying of ] hard to get items (I usually wait, taste, and buy, but for certain small ] production items that's sometimes impossible), it's my personal preference to ] try barrel samples, I'd rather make a mistake based on my faulty tasting than ] just be a sheeple.

I agree, of course, with the last bit! I've found tannins difficult to judge from barrel samples, and also other aspects of suppleness. The fruit "focus" makes sense to me, but the forwardness and structure of same seems to vary very quickly over time when in barrel; also I've noticed that sometimes early bottle shock will bring fruit forward. The amount of oak, yes, in a general way.

cheers,

-E

Zachy's prices tend to be high, so even if they have a 16% off sale (fairly common) their prices tend to be about the same as Rochambeau's regular pricing. But there are always a few that are good, and during their "net sales" there are some good values.

Well, I actually bought nothing at these prices. I expect negociant wines to be priced less than top growers' wines, and these are in line (or higher). I might keep an eye out to see if I see that '97 Charmes at a better price though- one of the best '97 Burgs I've tried.

Personally I find amount of tannins fairly easy to judge, though not neccessarily type (whether ripe, hard, fine, etc.). In fruit one can usually detect if there's any green unripeness, as well as profile of fruit (high acid tends to make Burgs seem more black fruit, for instance).

In any case, I think that tasting from barrel samples is a datapoint, but one that shouldn't be given as much weight as other points.

Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

Emery, There is a very good reason for your problems with judging tannins in barrel samples. It is well documented that the astringency of tannins changes in a very interesting way with the size of the tannins (the smallest show no astringency, moderate size show the most and then a steady decrease with size thereafter). Since the tannins in barrel samples are typically small, they will tend to show very soft and forward. In short time, though, the tannins will have increased in size enough to make the same wine a tannic monster! It would certainly take more experience than I have to reliably judge the aging potential of a wine from a barrel sample.

Mark Lipton