US direct shipping rules


Sorry to open a new thread, but I found myself pretty puzzled after searching the Internet for informations about this point: is it possible for a "small" (and in case how small is small enough?) non-US wine producer to ship wine directly to the final consumer? Or to a retailer? Apparently I have just found a problem whose legal details look more complex and more difficult to grasp than the Italian counterpart..;-)
Reply to
filippo
> Sorry to open a new thread, but I found myself pretty puzzled after > searching the Internet for informations about this point: is it possible > for a "small" (and in case how small is small enough?) non-US wine > producer to ship wine directly to the final consumer? Or to a retailer? > Apparently I have just found a problem whose legal details look more > complex and more difficult to grasp than the Italian counterpart..;-) I short, yes, but . . .
Not all states will "allow" it therefore shippers such as FEDEX and UPS or DHL will not handle the shipment. Assuming this is an occassional or once only thing, you may send me some glassware to 225 . . .
Reply to
Joseph Coulter
> Sorry to open a new thread, but I found myself pretty puzzled > after searching the Internet for informations about this point: > is it possible for a "small" (and in case how small is small > enough?) non-US wine producer to ship wine directly to the final > consumer? Or to a retailer? Apparently I have just found a > problem whose legal details look more complex and more difficult > to grasp than the Italian counterpart..;-)
Filippo,
from all what I have heard (and read), it's absolutely impossible to ship directly to consumers just about in *any* of the 50 US states. Wine distribution is strict state law, so there is no uniform and single answer. Please, community, correct me if I'm wrong.
Just about the only possible way seems to to contact wine geek importers and kindly ask them for a favor. This might work. Apart from this group, you might also post on Mark Squires's Wine Bulletin Board at eRobert.Parker.com.
M.
Reply to
Michael Pronay
In article , iselotnic.oppilif@btinternet.com says... > > >Sorry to open a new thread, but I found myself pretty puzzled after >searching the Internet for informations about this point: is it possible >for a "small" (and in case how small is small enough?) non-US wine >producer to ship wine directly to the final consumer? Or to a retailer? >Apparently I have just found a problem whose legal details look more >complex and more difficult to grasp than the Italian counterpart..;-)
Unfortunately, the answer is "it depends." Not any help, but that is the best that we, in the US, can offer. Each state has its own set of laws and rules, mostly revolving around state taxes, and lobbiests for distributors.
Recently, a good friend (about 20 cases of his wine are in my cellar, while he builds his own) traveled to Italy and had about six cases of wine, not readily available in the state of Arizona (very restrictive in many wine-related areas) for his personal consumption. All six cases made it through customs without a glitch. I do not know all of the particulars, but do not believe that many are imported into, and distributed, in Arizona. I know that this antecdotal bit doesn't answer your question, but does point out that it can be done - in some places.
Also, please note that the state laws, governing the sale of wine in the US, are changing. Some rather quickly, though some too slowly to do (some of us) much good.
Joe "Bepe" Rosenburg should be a good resource in this group, as he is/was in the wine import/distribution business, and has played the games, that many states require. Others may be able to be of specific help, as well.
Actually, it has probably been easier to form the EU, than to get any good info on selling a bottle of wine in many of the state in the US.
Good luck, Hunt - in Arizona
Reply to
Hunt
See also chianti thread. I know I've done this before but as a former broker, I worked at all levels. To import a wine into the US at a minimum you need an importer and approval of your label & warning label by the US government--most times the importer submits the label for you after indicating what exactly is needed and in what font & type size. The importer multiplies the FOB or excellar price & shipping & US Customers cost by a factor of at least 1.2. In rare cases like Washington DC-enotecas (stores) have import licenses but they then multiply costs by 1.5 because their prices still would be less the other States. A few States allow an importer to be a wholesaler/distributor if that's the case the importer raises his prices higher as long as his/her wines are equal to what the market is charging. In the rest of the States the importer finds a wholesaler who must register the wine with the State which may involve submitting another label & comparing it to the one the US Government approved. The wholesaler charges their cost including shipping from an importer a nark up of at least 1.3 but more common 1.4. The retailers than charge about 1.4 to 1.5 depending on the mark ups of other stores that's 140-150% rounded up to x.49 0r x.99 cents. Restaurants charge at least 200% percent of their cost more often 300% of what a retailer would charge. The winery is expected to supply 5% in samples and credit a seller for "returns". US Customs can inspect any shipment and only items listed on an invoice or manifest and conform to Government approved labels are allowed in--the container is held until the matters resolved--generally a custom broker is involved at the importers choice as is shippers and whether or not the containers are refrigerated ("reefers" add $4-8 to shipping costs travel from the East Coast to West another $6 > This is the best resource I have found referencing direct shipment in > the US > >
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Reply to
Joe \"Beppe\"Rosenberg
Where Pennsylvania is concerned, there is no direct shipping (except by in-state wineries). In limited circumstances, you can get imported wine shipped to the state-owned store of your choice, but you still have to go get it. Their rationale is that this keeps minors from buying wine on the web. Dan-O > Sorry to open a new thread, but I found myself pretty puzzled after > searching the Internet for informations about this point: is it possible > for a "small" (and in case how small is small enough?) non-US wine > producer to ship wine directly to the final consumer? Or to a retailer? > Apparently I have just found a problem whose legal details look more > complex and more difficult to grasp than the Italian counterpart..;-)
Reply to
Dan the Man
in article k7WdnVgaBu9-VzbYnZ2dnUVZ8qijnZ2d@bt.com, filippo at iselotnic.oppilif@btinternet.com wrote on 1/15/07 10:41 AM: > > Sorry to open a new thread, but I found myself pretty puzzled after > searching the Internet for informations about this point: is it possible > for a "small" (and in case how small is small enough?) non-US wine > producer to ship wine directly to the final consumer? Or to a retailer? > Apparently I have just found a problem whose legal details look more > complex and more difficult to grasp than the Italian counterpart..;-)
As has been said here, alcoholic beverages are one of the most tightly controlled consumer products in the US. I'm assuming, from your question, that this is a commercial venture, not an individual to an individual. My somewhat educated answer is that you would have to ship your wine to a properly licensed importer within the US, who would then be able to ship it to properly licensed retailers. From what I know, the importer cannot ship directly to consumers unless his/her business is separately licensed to do so, but I know of several who apparently do it, so it is no doubt legal.
Reply to
Midlife
> > Sorry to open a new thread, but I found myself pretty puzzled after > searching the Internet for informations about this point: is it possible > for a "small" (and in case how small is small enough?) non-US wine > producer to ship wine directly to the final consumer? Or to a retailer? > Apparently I have just found a problem whose legal details look more > complex and more difficult to grasp than the Italian counterpart..;-)
Filippo,
I tried to email you, but bounced. Could you drop me a mail at the address in the sig below?
Thanks,
-E
-- Emery Davis You can reply to ibmemeryamazon@ebayadelkadell.applecom by removing the well known companies
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Reply to
Emery Davis
> in article k7WdnVgaBu9-VzbYnZ2dnUVZ8qijnZ2d@bt.com, filippo at > iselotnic.oppilif@btinternet.com wrote on 1/15/07 10:41 AM: > > > > > Sorry to open a new thread, but I found myself pretty puzzled after > > searching the Internet for informations about this point: is it possible > > for a "small" (and in case how small is small enough?) non-US wine > > producer to ship wine directly to the final consumer? Or to a retailer? > > Apparently I have just found a problem whose legal details look more > > complex and more difficult to grasp than the Italian counterpart..;-) > > As has been said here, alcoholic beverages are one of the most tightly > controlled consumer products in the US. I'm assuming, from your question, > that this is a commercial venture, not an individual to an individual. My > somewhat educated answer is that you would have to ship your wine to a > properly licensed importer within the US, who would then be able to ship it > to properly licensed retailers. From what I know, the importer cannot ship > directly to consumers unless his/her business is separately licensed to do > so, but I know of several who apparently do it, so it is no doubt legal.
There are wine clubs that ship direct to homes. I have a friend who gets 3 bottles a month from the Italian Wine Club. They offer three price points, I think. Ah, yes:
Silver Membership: Receive 3 bottles each month of great Italian wines such as Chianti, Barbera, Dolcetto & other new style blends. 3 bottles: $49.95 + s/h per shipment
Gold Membership: Receive 3 bottles each month of distinguished Italian wines such as Chianti Classico and Riserva, Single Vineyard Crus, and premium varietal blends. 3 bottles: $79.95 + s/h per shipment
Platinum Membership: Receive 3 bottles each month of superlative Italian wines such as Brunello, Barolo, Amarone and famous Super Tuscans. (only Reds available) 3 bottles: $199.95 + s/h per shipment
The wines come packed in a large crate, well-protected.
The wines are superb, from what I have heard. Many are not widely available at stores.
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Reply to
UC
> Sorry to open a new thread,
Ok, I follow up to myself to thank all the people who gave an answer to my question. Guys, you have been incredibly supportive, I appreciate this very much. Thanks to Joseph Coulter, Michael Pronay, Hunt, ferment, Joe "Beppe" Rosenberg, Dan the Man, Midlife, Emery Davis (Emery, I tried and send you an email to the address you said, but that bounced back to me too..). I will try and digest this information. I will definitely let the ng know of any progress I would make on this point. Thank you also to those who showed appreciation for my little contribution so far to this ng, both in this thread and in the Chianti one as well. It is particularly encouraging that such issues as the Chianti identity, although maybe very specific in character, can still be of some general interest even to a faraway public (and who knows? maybe not despite but rather thanks to being so faraway..)
Reply to
filippo
> (Emery, I tried and send you an email to the address you > said, but that bounced back to me too..). I will try and > digest this information. I will definitely let the ng know of > any progress I would make on this point.
Filippo, there is a curse, apparently. I'll try again using the above address. Meanwhile, I had said:
"Emery Davis here from alt.food.wine. I was wondering if you would consider shipping some of your wine to me here in France. I enjoyed your contribution in the chianti thread and would be very interested in trying it..."
There's more, but I'll try again.
-E -- Emery Davis You can reply to ibmemeryamazon@ebayadelkadell.applecom by removing the well known companies
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Reply to
Emery Davis
> >> (Emery, I tried and send you an email to the address you >> said, but that bounced back to me too..). I will try and >> digest this information. I will definitely let the ng know of >> any progress I would make on this point. > > Filippo, there is a curse, apparently. I'll try again using the > above address. Meanwhile, I had said: > > "Emery Davis here from alt.food.wine. I was wondering if you would consider > shipping some of your wine to me here in France. I enjoyed your contribution > in the chianti thread and would be very interested in trying it..." > > There's more, but I'll try again. > > -E Emery, thanks for your interest. If using the address I am presently using, then please transform resu@tsoh.do.ma.in => user@host.do.ma.in (i.e. also the first bit after the at sign) If using the other one (iselotnic.oppilif etc..) then please transform emanrus.eman@ => name.surname@ (i.e. just the part before the at sign)
Reply to
filippo
No I think their rationale is to collect the "Johnstown flood" tax as well as all of the other taxes on alcohol in this great Commonwealth! > Where Pennsylvania is concerned, there is no direct shipping (except by > in-state wineries). In limited circumstances, you can get imported wine > shipped to the state-owned store of your choice, but you still have to > go get it. Their rationale is that this keeps minors from buying wine > on the web. > > Dan-O >> Sorry to open a new thread, but I found myself pretty puzzled after >> searching the Internet for informations about this point: is it possible >> for a "small" (and in case how small is small enough?) non-US wine >> producer to ship wine directly to the final consumer? Or to a retailer? >> Apparently I have just found a problem whose legal details look more >> complex and more difficult to grasp than the Italian counterpart..;-) >
Reply to
Barb
I'm with you Barb. No way Uncle Eddie is going to let a bottle hit your door without siphoning off a few ounces to lubricate the patronage machine. Besides, he's got his new PLCB CEO's salary to consider. Jon > No I think their rationale is to collect the "Johnstown flood" tax as well > as all of the other taxes on alcohol in this great Commonwealth! > "Dan the Man" wrote in message > news:1168914011.667540.132670@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com... >> Where Pennsylvania is concerned, there is no direct shipping (except by >> in-state wineries). In limited circumstances, you can get imported wine >> shipped to the state-owned store of your choice, but you still have to >> go get it. Their rationale is that this keeps minors from buying wine >> on the web. >> >> Dan-O >>> Sorry to open a new thread, but I found myself pretty puzzled after >>> searching the Internet for informations about this point: is it possible >>> for a "small" (and in case how small is small enough?) non-US wine >>> producer to ship wine directly to the final consumer? Or to a retailer? >>> Apparently I have just found a problem whose legal details look more >>> complex and more difficult to grasp than the Italian counterpart..;-) >> > >
Reply to
Zeppo
I never sold bottle 1 to Pa without taking at least 3 PLCPers to have lunch on me with the samples I brought with me. > I'm with you Barb. No way Uncle Eddie is going to let a bottle hit your door > without siphoning off a few ounces to lubricate the patronage machine. > Besides, he's got his new PLCB CEO's salary to consider. > > Jon > > "Barb" wrote in message > news:LPSrh.4440$Ld.2954@trndny08... > > No I think their rationale is to collect the "Johnstown flood" tax as well > > as all of the other taxes on alcohol in this great Commonwealth! > > "Dan the Man" wrote in message > > news:1168914011.667540.132670@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com... > >> Where Pennsylvania is concerned, there is no direct shipping (except by > >> in-state wineries). In limited circumstances, you can get imported wine > >> shipped to the state-owned store of your choice, but you still have to > >> go get it. Their rationale is that this keeps minors from buying wine > >> on the web. > >> > >> Dan-O > >>> Sorry to open a new thread, but I found myself pretty puzzled after > >>> searching the Internet for informations about this point: is it possible > >>> for a "small" (and in case how small is small enough?) non-US wine > >>> producer to ship wine directly to the final consumer? Or to a retailer? > >>> Apparently I have just found a problem whose legal details look more > >>> complex and more difficult to grasp than the Italian counterpart..;-) > >> > > > > > >
Reply to
Joe \"Beppe\"Rosenberg
> I never sold bottle 1 to Pa without taking at least 3 PLCPers to have lunch > on me with the samples I brought with me. > "Zeppo" wrote in message > news:51js9cF1jvtouU1@mid.individual.net... > > I'm with you Barb. No way Uncle Eddie is going to let a bottle hit your > door > > without siphoning off a few ounces to lubricate the patronage machine. > > Besides, he's got his new PLCB CEO's salary to consider. > > > > Jon > > > > "Barb" wrote in message > > news:LPSrh.4440$Ld.2954@trndny08... > > > No I think their rationale is to collect the "Johnstown flood" tax as > well > > > as all of the other taxes on alcohol in this great Commonwealth! > > > "Dan the Man" wrote in message > > > news:1168914011.667540.132670@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com... > > >> Where Pennsylvania is concerned, there is no direct shipping (except by > > >> in-state wineries). In limited circumstances, you can get imported wine > > >> shipped to the state-owned store of your choice, but you still have to > > >> go get it. Their rationale is that this keeps minors from buying wine > > >> on the web. > > >> > > >> Dan-O > > >>> Sorry to open a new thread, but I found myself pretty puzzled after > > >>> searching the Internet for informations about this point: is it > possible > > >>> for a "small" (and in case how small is small enough?) non-US wine > > >>> producer to ship wine directly to the final consumer? Or to a > retailer? > > >>> Apparently I have just found a problem whose legal details look more > > >>> complex and more difficult to grasp than the Italian counterpart..;-) > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
Everything I've read about PA wine shipping rules and the ABC there would certainly negate what little desire I would have to live there. I know people who drive 6 hours or more to get good wine in PA.
Reply to
Lawrence Leichtman
> >> I never sold bottle 1 to Pa without taking at least 3 PLCPers to have >> lunch >> on me with the samples I brought with me. >> "Zeppo" wrote in message >> news:51js9cF1jvtouU1@mid.individual.net... >> > I'm with you Barb. No way Uncle Eddie is going to let a bottle hit your >> door >> > without siphoning off a few ounces to lubricate the patronage machine. >> > Besides, he's got his new PLCB CEO's salary to consider. >> > >> > Jon >> > >> > "Barb" wrote in message >> > news:LPSrh.4440$Ld.2954@trndny08... >> > > No I think their rationale is to collect the "Johnstown flood" tax as >> well >> > > as all of the other taxes on alcohol in this great Commonwealth! >> > > "Dan the Man" wrote in message >> > > news:1168914011.667540.132670@v45g2000cwv.googlegroups.com... >> > >> Where Pennsylvania is concerned, there is no direct shipping (except >> > >> by >> > >> in-state wineries). In limited circumstances, you can get imported >> > >> wine >> > >> shipped to the state-owned store of your choice, but you still have >> > >> to >> > >> go get it. Their rationale is that this keeps minors from buying >> > >> wine >> > >> on the web. >> > >> >> > >> Dan-O >> > >> >> > >>> Sorry to open a new thread, but I found myself pretty puzzled after >> > >>> searching the Internet for informations about this point: is it >> possible >> > >>> for a "small" (and in case how small is small enough?) non-US wine >> > >>> producer to ship wine directly to the final consumer? Or to a >> retailer? >> > >>> Apparently I have just found a problem whose legal details look >> > >>> more >> > >>> complex and more difficult to grasp than the Italian >> > >>> counterpart..;-) >> > >> >> > > >> > > >> > >> > > > Everything I've read about PA wine shipping rules and the ABC there > would certainly negate what little desire I would have to live there. I > know people who drive 6 hours or more to get good wine in PA.
Lucky for me I live within a half hour of both Delaware and New Jersey. :-)
To be fair, things have gotten a lot better in the PLCB in the last few years. The recently departed chairman, Jonathan Newman, had made great progress modernizing the system (within the limits of his powers). Many 'State Stores' are now open Sundays, and many have a specialty shop within the store that carry's a nicer line of wines. There are even a few supermarkets with wine and spirit stores attached. In the 5 county Philly are there are usually at least one educated employee at each State Store who knows wine and knows their stock. I've been blessed to live near a store where most of the employees are pretty savvy.
It will be interesting to see if things go downhill again now that Newman was forced out.
Jon
Reply to
Zeppo
> > Lucky for me I live within a half hour of both Delaware and New Jersey. :-) > > To be fair, things have gotten a lot better in the PLCB in the last few > years. The recently departed chairman, Jonathan Newman, had made great > progress modernizing the system (within the limits of his powers). Many > 'State Stores' are now open Sundays, and many have a specialty shop within > the store that carry's a nicer line of wines. There are even a few > supermarkets with wine and spirit stores attached. In the 5 county Philly > are there are usually at least one educated employee at each State Store who > knows wine and knows their stock. I've been blessed to live near a store > where most of the employees are pretty savvy. > > It will be interesting to see if things go downhill again now that Newman > was forced out. > > Jon
Yes, Newman's departure could be a big step backward, now that Ed "Big Machine" Rendell's buddy is in charge. We were finally coming out of the 18th century under Newman's stewardship. For now, I go to a Specialty store in Wyomissing, west of Reading, or I patronize one of the local producers.
Dan-O
Reply to
Dan the Man
>> >> Lucky for me I live within a half hour of both Delaware and New Jersey. >> :-) >> >> To be fair, things have gotten a lot better in the PLCB in the last few >> years. The recently departed chairman, Jonathan Newman, had made great >> progress modernizing the system (within the limits of his powers). Many >> 'State Stores' are now open Sundays, and many have a specialty shop >> within >> the store that carry's a nicer line of wines. There are even a few >> supermarkets with wine and spirit stores attached. In the 5 county Philly >> are there are usually at least one educated employee at each State Store >> who >> knows wine and knows their stock. I've been blessed to live near a store >> where most of the employees are pretty savvy. >> >> It will be interesting to see if things go downhill again now that Newman >> was forced out. >> >> Jon > > Yes, Newman's departure could be a big step backward, now that Ed "Big > Machine" Rendell's buddy is in charge. We were finally coming out of > the 18th century under Newman's stewardship. For now, I go to a > Specialty store in Wyomissing, west of Reading, or I patronize one of > the local producers. > > Dan-O > I went to a summer camp in Wyomissing on the banks of the Schuykill back in the early '60s. Beautiful area.
I frequent the Conshohocken store on Ridge Pike as its near my home. I also shop at the Bryn Mawr store near work if I run errands at lunch. That has proven to be frustrating when the manager is not there as no one else knows where anything is.
Jon
Reply to
Zeppo

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