what to say when it's bad

In Paris I could easily believe (sorry, my comment was a little cyptic in my last post, but that is what I meant).

But I find it difficult to believe that old people in any other wine growing area drink Bordeaux. Their range of experience might be narrow, but it will be local to where they live.

That kind of people does acknowledge that there is local wine, but they view it as something not quite as classy and impressive as a Bordeaux. And even their knowledge of local winemakers is usually limited to a couple of names that may be a few decades out of date, known names coasting on their past reputation. Over here in Bandol very few people know of Tour du Bon or Terrebrune, they do know P******x, which even some wine buffs try to convince themselves they like because they feel some kind of reverence for the name, when in fact in a blind tasting the stuff would not fare better than a coop wine from the pump.

Steve Slatcher wrote: []

No one is more romantic about their country than the French. There are endless programs (including the most watched 1pm news program) that are nothing more than travelogues and propaganda for how great the country is. (And much of it is pretty fine, too. These programs can be pretty charming. Anyone seen the guy who toddles around in the London Cab, exclaiming at the wonders of local produce?)

Anyway the French consider Bordeaux wine to be national heritage and an example of Gallic Superiority. Wines from the regions, with the exception of Burgundy and that to a lesser extent, don't enjoy the same status as "patrimoine."

-E

Ah, this is excellent and just what is called for. I don't have much tact but I'll be delighted to retain yours. ;)

-E

^^^^^^^^

Mike, please, what are you talking about?

Don't forget that a name overfamiliar to you might be completely unknown to others.

M.

P.S. Who invented this extremely silly system of using stars instead of letters? None of the explanations I ever read convinced me. Copyright infringement definitely is *not* an issue.

M.

Ack.

I would add Champagne to this short list. But then many French do not consider Champagne as a wine.

M.

That is also true, somehow the bubbles make into something else... and most French people do not know that most Champagne is made from grapes grown by thousands of small growers, despite the final brand name.

Of course, what I meant is that everyone tends to know one or two names that might have been the best 20-40 years ago, and these reputations last a long time, despite contemporary evidence showing that all that is left is the name...

Indeed silly.

][

I wonder if the custom originates in American syndicated comics, "The Funnies."

Of course you cannot print a curse word (know amusingly in American as "bad words" but in French as "big words") in an American newspaper; so much for the first amendment! So the comics artists got around it by using &^%@# * in place of "bad words," which was OK perhaps because it would not corrupt the innocent.

Back on topic, maybe I should have said "This will take the paint of the %&$^*@* windows!"

-E

So please, once again, what *is* the name, what does "P******x" stand for?

M.

Oh, I mentioned it without asterisks in the last post, (Ch.) Pradeaux. IMHO vastly overrated, with rough green tannins that do not mellow with age.

Thanks a lot!

M.

I always go back to:

"An unassuming, yet approachable wine. Straightforward and without mystery, easily meeting the expectations I held for it. Pleasant, yet flaccid. I wouldn't hold it much longer, it is probably at its peak."

The comment is honest and sufficiently wine-geeky that they think I said something nice.

Ed Rasimus

Erm... Yellowtail Shiraz. Need I say more, Ernie? :(

p.s. Sorry to have missed you last time out, but circumstances got in the way...

Brilliant!!

=========To answer those who asked if I was serious about the reputation of Bordeaux. Yes. I was entirely serious. I live about 200 km (call it

There's some truth in the suggestion (was it Steve) that many/most restaurants stock what the local suppliers sell. That certainly happens to a greater or lesser extent here. As it happens I know the owner of the local suppliers, and he's a good enough friend of mine for me to have been able to remonstrate with him about what he offers to the trade.

His reply is simple - and totally confirms what I've been saying. "But Ian, I've got to supply restaurants what their customers want and expect. They don't want some relatively minor appellation no matter how much better value for money it may be. They want Bordeaux."

As for what the older people drink admittedly in an area which isn't reallt a wine growing area. I'd say 90% of them will always look to Bordeaux for their celebratory bottles and even rgeularly drink poor quality minor AOC Bordeaux, despite the fact that there's a perfectly good local (next door region, actually, and that matters) wine available for FAR less than they pay for some memorably awful plonk.

When I came here, I was pretty shocked at the general level of ignorance about food and wine. I can absolutely confirm what Mike T says here.

While French journalists (echoing and reinforcing the opinions of M Tout-le-monde) proclaim the pre-eminence of France in the worlds of gastronomy, and oenology, they are talking about something that almost no longer exists. There's very little knowledge about, practice of, or respect for the dishes that created the reputation of France in the last century. I'm not saying that you can't eat and drink well here, or that we're worse off than in other countries, but we're WAY worse off here than we were 30 years ago. As for oenology, I've lost count of the number of times I've heard it said "Ah yes, but they're using French grapes varieties and French oenologists, that's the only reason they make good wines, and in any case they don't have OUR terroir."

While I'd have some time for French chauvinism if it was based on some kind of knowledge of wines from elsewhere, this chauvinism is reflected in an astonishing level of refusal to import good foreign wines and therefore is based on an almost total ignorance of what is being made elsewhere. Virtually not ONE of my french friends have tasted any New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc wines, Australian Shiraz, Californian Zinfandel, Austrian Gruner Veltliner, Swiss Petite Arvine or German Rieslings. Yet they are utterly convinced that "French wines are the best in the World". And that's not because THEY have tasted them, but because eminent oeno-journalists (Mchael Pronay won't like me mentioning them) like Bettane or Burtschy, while in private admitting that some of the best foreign wines might have a little merit, publicly decry and denigrate all foreign wines to the extent of actually lying about them.

I've read BB say that "Sekt" is a german name for a low quality sparkling wine" (the Mikes can confirm this, as it sparked a furious argument I had with him, which led to him leaving frbv) and MB claiming that he doesn't like Tokaju Aszu because he doesn't like sweet wines that aren't botrytised, which also sparked a somewhat heated discussion that I had with him.

-- All the best Fatty from Forges

Ian, and how many times, when the DO serve a "foreign" wine, they them quickly explain "oh, it's a winery started by a Frenchman over there". Happened recently with a NZ SB, tasted like a Loire wine... :-)

Ah yes, I was there! He said this in front of 100 people, but you were a gentleman and waited to tell him in private that he was wrong about Tokaji Aszu! :-)

Ah, but that putrid sample I inflicted last time wasn't my creation; it was a 2005 2 Buck Chuck (not Yellowtail) syrah, bottled and sold just four months after harvest. And I was looking for input from experienced tasters on what that horrible stench was, not validation of my imagined talents.

The observation by Monsieur R., "BLEEAGGHHH!", was perfectly appropriate in those circumstances.

Mark Lipt>