White pepper in wine?

"Tom S" wrote in news:YiApc.49222$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr29.news.prodigy.com:

tle of 2002 Cadia Verduno Pelaverga ($16US) and opened

Interesting becasue I had a bottle of Beaucastel's Les Sinards 2001 this evening and noticed it to be quite smoth with almost no pepper! It was one of the silky CdPs

In a related note, for me (and I believe it's a generally accepted characteristic) of Gruner Veltliner is white pepper. I know because I _really_ don't like the smell of white pepper so when Gruner has it, I notice it.

Peter

yeah, I opened this thread thinking we were talking GV! I've occasionally gotten whiffs of white pepper in CdP, but mostly I get a more generic "peppery" sense. Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

I have no idea what conditions produce this characteristic, but I've noticed white pepper notes in many of the petite sirahs I've had.

Ciò che ha detto Tom S ( snipped-for-privacy@spamlesspacbell.net) è così interessante, che devo dire la mia:

Pelaverga is a minor Piedemont grape, marked by spicyness. If you find it, try also the Ruché (from Castagnole Monferrato, other minor Piedmont) that has pepper but also a lot of fruit.

Luk

($16US)

Is it only recently that this is being grown? Having never heard of it before, I checked the indexes of all four of my Italian wine reference books; none of them mention it.

I checked online, but the websites are all in Italian. Looks like it's been around for close to a decade at least though.

Tom S

Ciò che ha detto Ken Blake ( snipped-for-privacy@this.is.an.invalid.domain) è così interessante, che devo dire la mia:

Pelaverga is a minor Piedemont grape, marked by spicyness.

No, it is an ancient and recently re-discovered grape.

Luk

heard

like

Thanks. Three out of those four references are over a decade old, so that may be my problem.

heard

Thanks for the reference. I guess the fact that it's been recently rediscovered, and that it didn't get its DOC untill 1995 accounts for my never having heard of it before.

Did some digging around, and this is what I found: "pepper" essence can be obtained by distilling the ripe berries of Piper Nigrum, which is apparantly a climbing plant. This essence contains terpenic hydrocarbons. It lacks the piquant character of the pepper grain, but the "pepper" smell found in wine also lacks that piquant edge. I think here we are really talking about black pepper, but so it goes.

The place where I found this almost useless bit of information lists the following Italian wines (among many from elsewhere) as having "fine expression of pepper": Tenimenti Angelini, Val di Suga, Brunello de Montalcino Barbaresco, Bruno Giacoja Barolo, Sandrone, Cannucci Boschis Barolo, Clerico, Mentin Ginesta

(they also list Umathum St.Laurent Vom Stein from Austria, and Ridge Cab from the US)

I doubt that a vintner adds this essence. Most likely it is as other "notes" are: some chemical compound produced in the winemaking is either the same or close enough that it lends that aroma.

Please, somebody give a better answer! e. winemonger

White and black pepper are from the same plant. Indeed the flavours change. Both are piper nigrum. Most pepper is a non-descript blend of many peppers, like most tea or most chocolate. It is interesting to actually learn the individual characteristics of distinct "growths" of pepper. White pepper from the Congo for example has a distinct animal aroma which can put you off at first, but when actually used in cooking it somehow becomes soft and spicy.

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

"White pepper" is particularly evident in cool climate syrah. The Penfolds Coonawarra Bin 128 is classic with its lifted white pepper aromas.

Many recent Northern California Syrahs show this powerfully on the nose and front palate.

It is desirable only when it fades to exhibit the deep and delicious black fruit inherent in the varietal.

Once you identify this aroma, it is unmistakeable.

I have never tasted white pepper in a white wine, and would love to know of a Gruner Veltliner where it is obvious.

Johann Donabaum Loibner Garten 2002

But if you're writing from the US, I'll give you another example which is more easily available.

Emily, The principal source of the pepper aroma is a chemical known as piperonal. It is closely related to several other flavorants known to occur in wine, so it is not unlikely that is does crop up (in small quantity in certain wines). Certainly, I have run across "pepper" in Zinfandel, Petite Sirah, Grenache and GV.

Mark Lipton

It is closely related to several

crop up (in small quantity in certain

Grenache and GV.

Thanks Mark.

Now I wonder if it is a slightly different compound make-up for the "black pepper" note vs. the "white pepper" note. I once found a website where a group of chemists began listing the breakdowns for these wine aromas.... tried to find it just now but couldn't.

emily