white wine query

Most wine is at least 11% or so alcohol, by law, custom, and necessity. Most whites are not high in acidity. Try a nice cheap Pinot Grigio or Soave.

A wine from muscat canelli grapes from Italy or the Left Coast---usually

7-10% alcohol but sweet--the muscat canelli is found in Asti Spumante but those are higher in alcohol. Three of the best from Italy are Rivetti, Morandina and Vietti---labels will say Moscato d' Asti.

I think Robert Mondavi's Moscato d'Oro may be around. The best is the Moscato Amabile made by Louis Martini---it sold only at the winery as it is frizzante(spritzy) At one time Sutter Home & Robert Pecota had good distribution.

Anything older than 2004 is a shadow of it's self. Wholesalers in your area who haven't moved out their 2003 or 2004s, will not order 2005, so you need help from a merchant in seeing what is available---There are other wines from France & Australia made from a different clone of muscat---they are higher in alcohol and more like syrup.

Some German Rieslings are less than 10% alcohol content, and slightly sweet. Dr. Loosen Erdener Treppchen comes to mind.

Alianca Vinho Verde (from Portugal) is 9% alcohol, and not overly acidic, if I recall correctly. wine-searcher.com shows many on-line suppliers from $3.99 to $9.99, for what all seem to be the same wine.

snipped-for-privacy@rogers.com wrote:

White wines are almost always more acidic than reds.

"bijoudog" skrev i melding news:iTuwg.795$ snipped-for-privacy@twister.nyroc.rr.com...

Yes, look for a German from 2003 with 10% alc. or less. It will definitely be low in acidity. (an extremely hot year) Anders

Nonsense.

By "nonsense", I assume you are disagreeing with my statement that white wines are almost always moree acidic that reds? I don;t mean to sound argumentative, but that is indeed true. Acid in a wine is typically measured in two ways; titratable acidity, and pH. The former is an analagous measure of total acidity (but is not, in fact, true total acidity, although the two are so close as to be meaningless to distinguish). The second, as you know, is a reverse function of hydrogen proton concentration - the strength of the available acid. The higher the "TA" (titratable acidity), the more acid. The lower the pH, the stronger the acidity.

White wines are harvested and made to a typical range of .65 to .75 TA, whereas red wines are harvested and made to a typical TA range of .6 to .7. In other words, white wines generally contain more titratable acid. More importantly, white wines are harvested and made such that the pH typically falls in a range between 3.1 and 3.3; whereas reds fall in a ph range of 3.4 to 3.6. In other words, white wines are considerably more acidic (remember that the pH scale, at the whole number, is logarithmic. The difference in perceptible acidity of these ranges is significant.

Why is all this important? Well, white wines have considerbaly less 'other stuff' to buffer them. If they are not acidic enough, they quickly taste 'flat' or 'flabby'. Whereas reds are somewhat mroe forgiving - with more buffering avaialble from the time left on the skins.

Anyway, to the point of your original post - it isn;t accurate (relatively speaking) to say that "most whites are not high in acidity". In fact, realtively speaking, whites are more acidic than reds.

Cheers,

Ric; winemaker, wine guzzler, and closet geek

They don't TASTE more acidic. I believe the poster was asking about wine that does not taste bitter or astringent, but used the word 'acidic'.

Actually, the OP said "that is low in both alcohol and acid".

However, even if 'taste' is what the OP was suggesting, white wines generally 'taste' more acidic (tart) than reds. The astringency of reds is due more to the presence of tannins.

This is a great example of why people should learn how to taste wine (technically speaking); recognizing causality of differing tastes helps people to discriminate - and to predict what they will like from what they won't.

Great post Mark.

Given UC's last post, I think he is really referring to tannins - he uses the words 'bitter' and 'astringent'; both associated with tannins rather than acids.

No, I'm not a commercial winemaker. I am a 'hobbyist' winemaker here in the Sierra Foothills. I have a small (200 vine) vineyard from which I make Syrah and Marsanne . And each year we purchase grapes from other vineyards. This year, I've committed to a small (500 lb) load of Cabernet Franc from a vineyard in this area. Produce 50+ gallons each year. And you - are you also a winemaker?

Agreed as to the impact of MLF. I have a personal preference for the crisp acidity of those that do not udergo MLF, or undergo only partial - such as the NZ SB's and Chardonnays. My '05 Marsanne was not taken through MLF. It is wonderfully crisp and lively. We compared it recently to some St. Joseph's from the upper Rhone (ancestral home of Marsanne); while the 'terroir' is so wonderfully evident in their wine, we prefer the more fruit forward style we make. This year, we are considering two separate batches; one taken through MLF, one not.

Cheers!

I've long ago ceased trying to understand WTF he's talking about: it's just not worth the effort.

Nope, I'm a wine-drinking chemist, hence my overly pedantic monologue on acidity. Lucky you, though, having such great raw materials at hand for your hobby. Living in Indiana, I'd have to restrict myself to non-vinifera grapes, and that also doesn't seem worth the effort. I'm quite fond on Amador and El Dorado county for Rhone varieties and Zins. What model are you shooting for with your Cab Franc? Chinon? or St. Emilion?

Yeah, I'm also a fan of crisper whites as a rule, though certain full-bodied Chardonnays can benefit from some roundness provided by ML. Whose St. Joseph blanc did you try? I'm always on the lookout for good producers. I'd guess that most producers in the N. Rhone put their whites through quite a bit of ML, but I don't have the data at hand to be sure.

Cheers again, Mark Lipton

My vote would be for a Portuguese Vinho Verde white. Usually less than $10, alcohol around 9 or 9.5%, a little spritzy, and a generally pleasant quaffer.

Cab Franc; given that I am unfamiliar with the Chinon, I can't compare. Honestly, my 'model' is the Cabernet Franc produced by Mark Foster here at Nevada City Winery. Much more akin to a St. Emilion than anything else I can think of.

We had the pleasure of visiting the Rhone valley last month, and picked up some St. Joseph's 'Deschants' from Chappoulet in Tain Hermitage. That is what I was comparing to - certainly not the higher end 'Crozes Hermitage' or 'Hermitage' wines!

That is, I believe, what the OP is referring to. I do like bitter wines very much (southern Itallian wines are often bitter) but Barbera can be a little 'acidic' tasting when young. The bitter flavor actually complements the acid.

Anyway, I don't know why anyone gets all excited about white wine when there's so much good red available.

Try a nice Insolia, such as this one:

"Ric" wrote .............

Ric, you are wasting your time, energy, knowledge and experience trying to get through the solid bone which is that appendage on Mr. Scarpitti's shoulders.

I have said it before: He has a mind like concrete - all mixed up and permanently set.

The "giveaway" is that he is so f****d in the head that he cannot even write the word "France"

Greetings from a gorgeous winters day in NZ (not a breath of wind, not a cloud in the sky - and just on 16C here in the far north)

"st.helier" wrote in news:ea67bt$fuo$ snipped-for-privacy@news.datemas.de:

It is not fair milord, The only thing close to 16c around here is the red wine that is set out for dinner!