Campen tablet made apple wine go cloudy

How long has it been since it turned cloudy? Darlene

Dr Paul, Maybe I am having dejavu(sp) but I swear this post was made like a month ago...

Hummm... That happened to me too.. But I added Brew King Wine Stabilizer and a campden tablet per gallon.. It clouded up in July and I don't see any signs of anything settling out.

I suspect something may be wrong with my Stabilizer... The Apple started putting bubbles thru the airlock and a batch of Blackberry that I stabilized and bottled started blowing corks.

Later, A. J. Rawls Anchorage, Alaska, USA

A.J., that sounds like the Pottasium Sorbate was kept around too long,(6 months shelf life I believe) or you didn't add enough of the "stabilizer" to effectively protect against fermentation. That in my opinion is one of the biggest problem with the stabilizing mixtures. You add what you like to taste and it may not be enough Sorbate, or if it is sweet it could be a lot more than you really needed and could give you off tastes.HTH John Dixon

Happened to me too last year. Never did find out why. Only ever seems to be with apple wine. This year I will not be using campden tablets for my apple wine! One of those 2-part finings (kieselsol and gelatin) should clear it OK.

Unless you mean that you will be using another form of SO2 (e.g. metabisulphite powder) rather than campden tablets, you are inviting bacterial spoilage. I know of nothing in metabisulphite (or in the excipients and fillers used to hold the tablet together) which would result in the cloudiness you report, and doubt that it's omission will solve the problem.

Yes, I am concerned about spoilage, but 2 years running I have made apple wine, it's cleared, I've added 1 campden tablet per gallon and the wine has immediately clouded amd has required fining to clear. It has only ever happened with apple wine and only upon addition of a campden tablet. I asked about this last year and nobody knew the answer, so I'm still at a loss to explain it.

It's a possibility that it's the campden tablet, have you tried straight pot.meta? That's the only thing I can think of really.

There was no sediment at the bottom, I was going to bottle it and just thought I would add the campden prior to bottling. I crushed the tab, dropped it in and stirred it - cloudy wine!

(preferably) a

I've bought some powdered meta this year and will try that. Thanks Negodki

Metabisulphite, as a reducing agent may well have a precipetating effect on certain proteins in solution. Alcohol in general also has a precipetating effect on proteins (though generally in higher conc), but together with the metabisulphide it may just about turn the cards. It may explain the haze. Then, a gelatine fining simultaneously with the metabisulphide addition after the last racking should get rid of the problem.

A quick test you could try is to have a sample of your cloudy wine, add some contact lens cleaner (containing proteases) and see if the haze disappears.

Rene.

Rene,

Thanks for the info, but I'm a little confused:

I think of precipitation as suspended solids dropping out of solution and sinking to the bottom. Are we in agreement on this usage?

Do you mean that two reducing agents in combination may have the opposite effect, i.e. to form a haze rather than cause precipitation?

If so, why doesn't this occur more frequently? Are there any predictable (and thus avoidable) circumstances under which this might occur?

I'm now wondering if the two inexplicable hazes I've had in the past (with apple wine!) have been a result of the S2O5 additions after all (although they didn't occur in already clear wine, but rather the wine just failed to clear without a great deal of fining).

Thanks.

Sure Lum is right! My mistake:

This is nitpicking, I know - it doesn't sound like you were shooting for accuracy here - but for a 10% solution you want 25 grams in 225 ml of water, not 250.

- Mark W.

"Mark Willstatter" wrote"

You are apparently attempting to include the volume of the meta, and calculating 25g / (225 ml + 25 ml) = 10 %, but 25 grams of metabisulphite does not become 25 ml of liquid in solution!

I don't know the actual figure for meta, but sugar in solution increases the volume by ~0.645 ml / gm, depending on temperature [Source: American Winemaking Society], so if we were dealing with sugar, and nitpicking, the equation would be:

I believe meta in solution increases the volume by far less than 0.5 ml / gm (this is verified by my own rough measurements), in which case my formula is more accurate. If it were more than .5 ml / gm, yours would be the more accurate. If it were more than 1.4 ml / gm, neither formula would be correct.

But there is probably more than this 1% potential error in the measuring cups, spoons and thermometer we will be using, as well as in our ability to fill the vessels to a precise volume. :)

As you said, I'm not shooting for more than +/- 10 % accuracy. If I were, I would be determining the difference between the weight of the primary when empty and its weight when full, and computing the volume of the must based on its SG. Then I would add the meta by weight, not by teaspoon or graduated syringe. And then I would still miss Mars by 10,000,000 kilometers because of some other factor I hadn't considered. :)

Probably from converting from imperial to metric back to US units and messing it up somewhere along the line! :^)

A solution to the 10 % solution: Rather than worry about the volume of the meta in solution, weigh the 25 grams of meta in a graduated cylinder, and fill it to the 250 ml level. :)

I am wondering if this is a sign that your wine should be cleared with finings. I agree (but don't know 8->) that you likely have something in the campden tablet acting as a precipitating agent. I just added the clarifier to a couple of white wine kits in carboys. They looked very clear, but when I added the clarifier they turned cloudy, and after only a couple of hours, I notice sediment on the bottom of the carboys, where there was none before.