How many gallons of wine to a grape vine?

I would like to produce 200 gallons of wine each year and do it from my own grape vines. I have the land but was wondering how many grape vines I need to plant. I live in Lufkin TX in the eastern part of Texas. I have 5 grape vines of table grapes and they do wonderfully so I know my piece of heaven will grow grapes. I just dont want to under plant. I figure I will plant a few extra for the lean years but this is just a hobby for now. Thanks Kenny

Reply to
kenny
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It depends on the variety and a LOT of other variables but I think if you use the assumption that it takes about 15 pounds of grapes to make a gallon of wine (could be anywhere from 12 to 15) and that a good vine after about

5 years can provide about 10 - 12 pounds of fruit, you will get a "ball park" figure. Of course, you may get more than 10 pounds per vine but these are "Ball park" numbers. So - to get about 200 gallons on wine think 200 gallons will require about - 200 gallons X 15 pounds per gallon = 3000 pounds of grapes. 3000 pounds / 10 pounds per vine = 300 vines. This is based on the assumption that you have about 4 - 6 feet between vines and about 7 - 10 feet between rows.

If you have the ground, I would recommend choosing the larger number between vines and rows. If you have excessive vigor, you can control it by allowing each vine more room and having a larger number of canes per vine. Also think about a divided canopy such as a Lyre, Scott Henry or Geneva Double Curtain trellising system. I think that in East Texas you WILL have excessive vigor.

Your results may vary.

Reply to
Paul E. Lehmann

Leaving aside for the moment any discussion of how many vines you need to plant... what are you planning to do with 200 gallons of wine per year? You do know, I hope, that it's illegal to sell home-produced wine; technically, it's not even legal to give it away. Are you really intending to drink _two_quarts_ daily?

Reply to
Doug Miller

Ya know I never really thought of it that way. I guess I am a little excessive compulsive in my hobbies. In one year I would make all the wine I need for the next 5 years of course the next year I still have 200 gallons of wine to deal with. I will rethink what I really need to plant adjusted to what I think I will drink in a year. THen again if the wine is good 200 gallons may not be enough :) This wine is all for me and only me maybe a small glass to the family but no more .

Reply to
kenny

Thanks for the information I will set down and work out how much I think I will really need I was a little aggressive with the amount of wine I need in a year probably 50 gallons will be more in the balll park. that is with putting 1/2 up to age for an extended time.

Reply to
kenny

kenny wrote "Thanks for the information I will set down and work out how much I think I will really need I was a little aggressive with the amount of wine I need in a year probably 50 gallons will be more in the balll park. that is with putting 1/2 up to age for an extended time."

Kenny - The old suggestion of 1 gallon wine per vine is a good ballpark figure. But don't let that stop you from planting several hundred vines if you have the room and the interest. With lots of vines you can limit the clusters of grapes per vine and increase the quality of your harvest. Also, you will have bad weather some years and if you have lots of vines you may still have enough grapes for your wine. And, you may end up selling part of your harvest to offset the cost of chemicals, fertilizer, etc. I would leave 10 feet between rows...makes it much easier to drive the tractor through the vineyard to spray fungicide and insecticide. This farming you know.

Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas

Reply to
William Frazier

Something not mentioned so far, and maybe you already know, but you are located dead center in hottest part of the Perices Disease zone. This fact will dramaticly limit your variatal selection. All of the French vinifira are out. No exceptions I fear. Less than ten French American hybrids are resistant to PD. Your choices are pretty much only true American natives and Muscadines.

A short but pretty complete list: Norton (Cynthiana), Black Spanish (Lenor), Blanc DeBois, Hermabot(sps?), Champenell(sp?), La Rouge, SV 12-375, SV12-259, SV12-372, and any Muscadine on the planet.

Fred Athens, Texas Ask me why I know :-(

Reply to
Fred Williams

I was not aware that it is illegal to give it away. Do you have an ATF ruling on that?

Reply to
Bob

Not only the next year, but every year after that as well.

Exactly.

Anything more than two glasses of wine per day is likely to be harmful to health. At six ounces per glass, that's one bottle every two days, or 182 bottles in a year. At five bottles to the gallon, that's 36 gallons per year.

Reply to
Doug Miller

U.S. law allows limited production of wine at home "for personal or family use" including removing it from the premises "for personal or family use" specifically INcluding organized tastings and competitions. "Personal or family use" clearly includes bringing a bottle or two along when you go to a friend's house for dinner and you'll be drinking it along with your friend, but it's a little harder to make the case that simply giving it away when you won't be actually consuming any of it yourself is also included under this heading. As a practical matter, I imagine that prosecutions for doing so are quite rare, but also as a practical matter I would prefer to not be in the position of having to argue the point with an ATF agent.

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Reply to
Doug Miller

Note carefully: "selling part of your harvest" means selling the *grapes*. If you're a home winemaker, selling the *wine* is against the law.

Reply to
Doug Miller

36 gallons per year PER PERSON.

If there are two of drinking age in the household then that means 72 gallons is required.

Federal law allows 200 gallons of wine per household in which there are two or more adults of drinking age.

Your 36 gallons assumes that all will be drunk in one year and does not allow for any to be aged for several years. Your 36 gallons also does not allow for wines that will not turn out to be all that great and may end up being used for cooking or to make vinegar.

I would venture to bet that some of those who limit themselves to only two glasses of wine per day for health reasons see nothing at all wrong with drinking vast quantities of soda or other beverages that have a list of chemicals on the outside of the container with words they can not even pronounce.

Lighten up. If the fellow wants to make 200 gallons of wine a year, who are you to judge. If the feds have nothing better to do than count bottles of wine in your cellar and determine when it was made, this country is in worse shape than I thought.

Reply to
Paul E. Lehmann

I can't quote verbatim, but as I recall the head of household is allowed to make up to 100 gallons per year, per adult in the household, up to a limit of 200 gallons. It must be made and consumed on the home premises. (This rule was in effect even during Prohibition, and lots of grapes were sold to home winemakers all over the USA.)

That said, the ATF looks the other way when it comes to the "home premises" part. There wouldn't be any home wine competitions at the fairs if they rigorously enforced that rule. Also, they aren't likely to stake out your house to be sure you aren't giving any of it away to your friends and relatives.

Just don't get caught "trading" it for $$. That they take real seriously.

Tom S

Reply to
Tom S

He did say specifically that it was mostly for himself, with only a little bit for other family members.

Only if both of them are drinking up to the limit of what is healthy, and the OP has already indicated that is not the case. And it's still a *lot* less than 200 gallons.

It also allows for a pretty high rate of consumption. :-)

The bottom line is that it's not smart to produce significantly more than you're going to consume, or it's going to go to waste. If consumption is at the rate of only 30 to 40 gallons annually, but production is at 200 gallons, it doesn't take very long to accumulate an enormous surplus.

If you want to be able to age it for several years, fine -- plant enough vines to produce *one* year's worth of wine. Then for the next three years, buy enough grapes to make enough wine for *two* years. By the time the vines start producing substantial harvests, there will be three years' worth of wine aging. Production will be at the same rate as consumption, but always three years ahead.

Possibly so, but utterly irrelevant.

Lighten up yourself -- nothing I said was in the least bit judgemental. It seemed to me that the OP hadn't thought things out all the way (and his response to my post confirmed that). All I did was to point out that it may be unwise to produce vastly larger quantities of wine than one is likely to consume. Just because you're *allowed* to produce 200 gallons a year doesn't mean that you *should*.

True, but again irrelevant. The 200-gallon limit is quite a lot more wine than one or two people are likely to consume in a year, so I very much doubt that they expend much manpower looking for limit violations.

Reply to
Doug Miller

Well, sort of. The law states it more simply than that: 100 gallons if there is one adult in the household, 200 gallons if there are two or more adults.

False. The law specifically permits removing the wine from the premises "for personal or family use".

False. The law specifically permits removing the wine from the premises for organized events such as tastings and competitions.

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Reply to
Doug Miller

Actually, a lot of the times it is the state law you have to worry more about. As an example, in New Jersey, you need to buy a yearly permit to homebrew.

The Constitution gives the States the right to regulate alcohol. If a state law says you are only allowed to produce 10 gallons a year and have to wear a clown hat while doing it, unless the Federal government makes an amendment to the Constitution, you have to do it.

Reply to
Adam Lang

technically,

Thank you very much, Doug. I try to stay out of trouble too. Fortunately, most of my friends do not drink at all. I have given some away, only to find that they never drank it. I gave some to a friend once, and found it two years later in the bottom of her fridge, untouched.

Reply to
Bob

That's why I don't live in NJ anymore...

The law is pretty wacky. I try to keep a low profile. I mostly brew for three reasons; I like the hobby, I love the types of wines that I make that usually can not be bought anywhere at any price, and it is cheaper to make it yourself. I am on a limited income and laying out ten or twenty bucks a week adds up. I can make a lovely bottle of wine for less than a buck. Bob<

Reply to
Bob

Fred Williams wrote "Something not mentioned so far, and maybe you already know, but you are located dead center in hottest part of the Perices Disease zone. This fact will dramaticly limit your variatal selection.

Kenny, Fred and others that may be looking for a great wine grape that's not well known. Our wine club, The Greater Kansas City Cellarmasters, puts on an amateur wine contest every November. Last year we had an entry of Delicatessen wine from a winemaker in the St. Louis area. I had the PLEASURE of tasting this red wine. It was outstanding...loaded with fruit. Everyone loved it and I thought it should have won Best Of Show (it won it's category). I mention this since Kenny lives in Texas. Delicatessen is a Munson Hybrid grape. I'm not sure if Delicatessen is bothered by Perices Disease but there is a repository of Munson Hybrids at Grayson County College in Denison, Texas. Contact Dr. Roy Renfro for information about how to grow these grapes in Texas at snipped-for-privacy@grayson.edu. Two of our wineclub members have planted rows of Delicatessen so we will have access to this grape in the Kansas City area. If more information, such as where to acquire vines, is of interest send me an email and I'll put you in contact with one of our growers.

Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas

Reply to
William Frazier

Do you perhaps mean Pierce's Disease?

Reply to
Dougl Miller

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