Small Oak Barrels - opinions

Hi: I cannot believe that a very small barrel is practical. Evem tje 20L barrel is too small. You get too great a surface area (of the barrel) for the amount of wine. Also, barrels must be conditioned properly and cleaned and sterilized thoroughly. If oak is what you want for wine preparation try oak chips.

Roger, I got a 20L as a gift and intend to use it, but it would not have been my choice for the reasons others stated. Mine is untoasted too, I would prefer at least a medium toast.

I was thinking of using the 12.7 gallon Hungarian before I got this, I would have gone for that or a 30 gallon if I were buying one. 50 gallons is too much wine for us, it's not practical to my situation.

I will let you know how this little one works out. It will take a while, it's dry right now. I intend to cycle several wines through it and keep it wet with wine year round if possible. I'm probably going to ferment a white in it to rip out some of the initial oak, then cycle the reds through. If the white is too oaky it won't be an issue, I'll blend it with others if need be.

Joe

They look OK from a quality standpoint, but that's only a guess without checking them out in person.

From a _practical_ point of view, anything less than about 30 liters doesn't make much sense to me. Also they're probably American oak, which I wouldn't use on my whites (although some do so successfully). At least they aren't waxed on the inside.

They mention using soda ash or Barolkleen to clean and/or "condition" them. That's a bad thing to do to good wood. You end up throwing away that expensive wood flavor and weakening the wood itself. Just imagine what your _hands_ would be like if you soaked them for a couple of days in soda ash solution!

Tom S

My experience with the refurbished barrels from morebeer.com is rather good. The used barrels don't impart too much oak, I have been able to leave my Cab Franc in the barrel for as long as 9 mos. My mistakes was not cleaning the barrels properly after the 1st use. I have since purchased proxyclean to clean the barrels.

This year I have a new barrel, 30 gallon from World Cooperage in the great state of Missouri! I recently drove from Popular Bluff in Missouri past Lebanon towards Springfield. Saw a large yard of aging staves. Great site!

Michael Amigoni Vineyards Centerview, MO

It is my understanding that oak barrels do more than add oak to wine. The breathing is very important to the overall effect. If you can only leave the wine in these barrels for a very short period of time, you would probably get the same effect from oak cubes and it would be cheaper.

Ray

This has not been my experience with a 10 gallon barrel. The wine is MUCH better from the barrel than with just oak cubes in a glass carboy. My barrel is about 4 years old now and I cycle wine through every three months. I check for full and top up every two weeks. It has never been empty longer than what it takes to empty the barrel and bottle and re-fill. It is just now getting to the point that I am not over oaking my wines. When it is completely neutral, I may add a few oak cubes to the barrel but even if I don't, I think several months in barrel makes a big difference.

You guys are saying the same thing, but making it look like you're in disagreement! (Read below.)

Tom S

I think the question is whether a "short" amount of time in a small barrel is enough to add beneficial results other than just oaking. I believe it is. I would suggest, however, that anyone thinking about getting a small barrel to get at least a 15 gallon size - and - have lots of wine available so that you can cycle your aging wine through the barrel without having a lot of time between fills so that the barrel is not empty for long periods of time. This will help extract some of the oak over a period of time so the wines will not be overly oaky.

I would like to thank everyone for their thoughtful replies. I am on the fence here, but even though the barrels are tiny and probably impractical, they might represent a good learning opportunity for an amateur. I am experienced so far only with oak chips, and while I am not dissatisfied with the results, I am curious about the next natural step in the progression.

The investment, storage, and care of a large barrel are a lot to take on with no prior experience. A tiny barrel allows very short usage time at first, but if the winemaker understands that, he can manage things correctly. Over time, the small barrel would have its flavor depleted and would allow longer storage times, and the associated micro-oxidation and flavor concentration benefits could potentially be experienced.

I realize that to people making a hundred gallons of wine annually, these little barrels look like toys. But perhaps they can be viewed as a learning step towards something more substantial... just like kits lead to juice and eventually to lugs of grapes.

(Plus the darn thing would fit on a shelf!)

Thanks again - Roger Quinta do Placer

Yea, Paul. I agree. He was talking about 1, 3, and 5 gal barrels. The cycle time in these would be so short there would be no breathing and I was suggesting that he would get the same effects with oak cubes and glass. With 10 and larger, the cycle time would probably be long enough to be beneficial. Since his range of barrel sizes extended up to 20 gal. I should have commented on that.

Ray

Roger,

In reference to your last paragraph:

They're not toys or inferior, they are just small. We have so many 225L barrels now that we use a computer program to track them. Having said that, I still have my very first the little 5 gallon barrel. I'm fond of it, it was a great teacher. I'll never part with it.

Dave Stacy

Dave, I completely 'get' this sentiment and I have numerous precious items from the nascent stages of the different realms of my life. Thanks for mentioning this.

Roger

Glad to see someone still has a sense of romance, sentimentalism, whatever.

Let us know what you end up doing.

Dave

That last part is particularly important. Air is the enemy of wine _and_ barrels that have had wine stored in them. SO2 is your best ally in the interim.

FWIW, I'd say you can go as small as 5 gallons and still get perceptible benefit from barrel aging - as opposed to wood infusion. It depends a lot on the age of the barrel, the specific wine and your taste for wood. A big red in a well-extracted small barrel, perhaps with a few oak "beans" thrown in for flavor, might easily become *excellent* over the course of 6-12 months.

Tom S

I _highly_ recommend that you add French oak cubes/beans back, or at least a combination of French with some American oak.

I did a long term (>15 years) study on this, with identical wines aged separately in new French and American (fire bent) oak barrels. The American oak aged wine smelled the best, but the French oak aged wine _tasted_ best.

Definitely!

Tom S

Michael,

I'm curious which refurbished barrel (size and type) you got. These really interest me because I'd like to try barrel aging but don't produce enough to justify a larger barrel and I don't want to have to run batches through a new barrel for only 2-3 months each. Morebeer.com says the staves are thiner due to planing - do you feel the barrels are solid and did you have any problem with over oxidation?

Thanks,

Ed