Ziegler's cider at WalMart with no preservatives? and shaking?

Dr. Richard E. Hawkins wrote "This one requires shaking before serving. How in the

Rack it off the sediment before you ferment it. You have to get rid of that stuff eventually.

Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas USA

But that's the problem :)

Do I lose the stuff that needs to be shaken back in by doing that? And should it bother me if I lose it?

hawk

Yes to the first and no to the second.

-------->Denny

OK, now *why* isn't that stuff important? :)

Hmm, and now the fiendish though hits me to not shake in the very first place, then ferment the heavy stuff separately, and add it back after racking off the sediment from the main batch . . .

hawk

If it's like other cider, the "heavy stuff" is just pulp, and has no zymurgical value (AFAIK).

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The "heavy stuff" will go away when you rack. Don't sweat it.

Bob

Richard,

You have to realize what the definitions of cider and apple wine really are. "Cider" (having nothing to do with the sediment, pulp, clear or cloudiness of the finished product) is fermented apple juice plain and simple...with NO additional sugars. Apples by their nature are only about 7% fermentable sugars. An apple cider fermented to dryness is only about 6.5% ABV. You can serve it as is or bottle with a very slight addition of juice or sugar to create sparkling cider. (VERY VERY SLIGHT) Some sediment throw off is usually seen and in fact expected by some by the very nature of cider. But it is a light sediment, you don't want the heavy stuff. Does not age well and meant to drink very young. As in this year.

Apple wine by its definition is Apple must chapitilized with additional sugars to create a ABV of 11-14% thus you get a wine that should be clarified, bottled and aged like any other wine. No sediment here. Although it can be sweetened to taste prior to bottling it must be properly stabilized with sorbate and SO2 to prevent any in bottle fermentation.

Tom

I got an initial gravity reading in the mid 40's.

OK. Lasts about as long as beer. Generally, I want it for thanksgiving & chrismas, and a few cold days in January & February.

I've generally called this "hard cider". This is what I really like :)

I have those around, though I'm trying to cut *way* back on the amount I use, even in real wine. There's *something* in some wines that gives me a massive sinus headache. The usual culprits are inexpensive whites, and every Chilean red I've every tried :( [I love those Chilean reds, but can't risk a full glass . . .]

thanks

hawk

As of this morning (one day), still no sign of fermentation.

:(

Hmm, is there an easy way to test for the presence of potassium sorbate? hawk

Yep...I make cider from juice I press from my own trees. I sulfite the juice and let it sit overnight. Next day, that sludge is there. I rack off of it into a carboy and pitch the yeast. The one time I didn't rack off of it before pitching, it just sank to the bottom of the carboy and I racked off of it going to secondary. No impact on taste either way.

--------->Denny

Here's a question for all the cider makers out there. If you've made a cider that was low in alcohol and still sweet, I'd like to know the name of your yeast.

I recently started a gallon, just to have something fun for the holidays. I used Lavin EC-1118, so I'm sure its going to be bone dry, and any sugar I might add would be fermented rapidly, until I hit 18% alcohol. And I don't want to go that far to have sugar left.

I could stabalize, but I'd like to prime the bottles for carbonation. Gee, I don't want much do I, low alcohol, residual sugar, natural bubbles.

I've googled around, and the suggestion is wine yeast for dry, ale yeast for residual sugar. But what kind? As I look closer, the particular strains of cider yeast and ale yeasts suggested all report that the cider will ferment dry.

Ralconte - Try White Labs English Cider yeast [wlp775]. A cider maker I know uses this yeast and makes a carbonated cider, beer strength with apple flavor retained. WLP775 is the only yeast he knows that will make a carbonated cider that doesn't taste bone dry. Here's some info on the yeast from White Labs site;

"Classic cider yeast. Ferments dry, but retains flavor from apples. Sulfur is produced during fermentation, but will disappear in first two weeks of aging. Can also be used for wine and high gravity beers."

Bill Frazier Olathe, Kansas UsA

Ralcontewrote>

The Ziegler's I got at Costco in MD has potassium metabisulfate, which I unfortunately didn't see when I purchased. My eyes glommed onto

It's not the yeast but rather how much fermentable sugars you have in the vat for the yeast to consume. If you add a mixture of fermentable and non fermenatble sugars to the bottle for carbonation priming you can get a bubbly sweet cider. High fructose corn syrup is about 4% non fermentable sugars and availble at your grocery store.

Okay I just recalled another idea. Blend in pear juice to your apple juice. Pears have naturally occuring non fermentable sugars. I just finished at batch of perry that would not drop below 1.006, a semi dry finish by taste.

I'd probably opt to leave it in during primary ferment. Either way, let us know what happens! Bob<

Thanks I will try this. I can even shoot in a small bottle of pear nectar now while the cider is still fermenting.

Most yeasts that give a % alcohol that's toxic would not conk out before they ferment all the natural sugars in cider. Maybe, despite my better judgement, I'll try bread yeast -- I know that will stop at low alcohol levels.

Apparently one compnay claims to make a yeast that will leave 2% sugar even if it could go dry. Bread yest is going to at best give you very low alcohol cloudiness you can't get rid of without membrane filters and taste of yeast will over power everything else.

Curiouser and curiouser.

It's been showing life since Sunday morning.

The bottles from Wally-world don't say either way. But I found bottles in Martins (a grocery stocked through Eagle) which say "no preservatives."

I picked up six more, which should let me make some with and some without sugar . . .

hawk