Beer/booze in grocery stores?

I still disagree with the premise. For one, you're declaring that the chicken came before the egg. Or, to be more precise, that the supply is driving the demand. Not always, but most of the time in an open market, it's the other way around. If there was high demand, more groceries would be stocking more diverse (both as a quantitative and comparative statement) beers.

If you want to argue that the availability of Bud and Miller in groceries potentially keeps stores from giving shelf space to craft beers, you could have a case. But not likely on the demand side. On the supply side. As in slotting fees. They go on in the rest of the store like crazy. (Granted, it may be illegal when it comes to alcoholic beverages to pay grocers for shelf placement, unlike bread or cereal. I don't pretendto be remotely familiar with the rules in this area.)

You could *maybe* argue that the widespread availability of "common" beers limits the exposure of better beers, but IMO you've done nothing to demonstrate that there's a case to be made for diminished demand.

I had no problem finding those in Indiana, Illinois or California, three states in which booze in all forms is available in pretty much every grocery and drug store.

That doesn't mean that my anecdotal evidence trumps your anecdotal evidence. It just means that you really need to come up with more than anecdotal evidence to support your speculation.

It really is far more dependent, IMO, on other factors, such as population density, demographics, income levels, etc. Cities where there's a sufficient market for such diversity and quality will almost inevitably have someone jump in to supply the demand. As I mentioned, I've seen plenty of high-quality, diverse, specialty stores selling not only fine beer, but selling fine wine or fine whisk(e)y or fine everything in states where you can walk into any grocery and get a beer. Granted, two of my three examples I can point to as having had plenty of experience with - LA and Chicago - are two of the three largest cities in the country. But it was also the case in Indianapolis, which as a whole did not have diversity in food and drink as one of its strong points when I lived there. And yet I had no problem finding several stores with plenty of selection. Conversely, Minneapolis is in a state where there is no grocery sales of beer, and I would say on a per-capita basis, Minneapolis was really not appreciably better than Indy when it came to the number of stores of the type you describe.

Well, first of all, San Diego is not hot. Not remotely. It's spectacularly mild.

Secondly, there are a lot of cultural and legal reasons that would make the South much less likely to have both diversity in beer and ready availability of that diversity. Several southern states have quite restrictive laws when it comes to selling beer. At least one or two didn't even allow brewing within their borders until the last few years. The legal climate is just not as friendly, in general.

Add in that the South is not only the most religious region in the country, but the dominant religious expression (Southern Baptist and other forms of evangelicalism and fundamentalism) is one that teaches that alcohol is bad and should not be consumed, plus an overall conservative culture that is slow to change and adopt new things, and you have plenty of potential hurdles to the widespread availability of a wide range of beer that are much more plausible than alleged diminishment of demand by making something too available.

-Steve

Reply to
Steve Jackson
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Maybe we are lucky here. It's not that the snob grocers are going to rival any of the good beer stores around here; I don't want to cast them as beer paradise. But they do a reasonably good job of carrying at least some interesting and diverse things. I just went to Bristol Farms today (to buy an organic chicken, another example of something not easily found at the normal Ralph's or Von's, and something that I would not argue whose demand is diminished because you can find chicken everywhere), and there were beers like Chimay, Duvel, Bear Republic, Stone, AleSmith, a smaller San Diego brewery whose name escapes me, Full Sail, Karl Strauss, Shipyard, Lagunitas, etc. etc. It's not nearly the selection I could get at the Wine Country less than 5 minutes down the street, but it doesn't suck, either.

That actually doesn't sound all that different from what I've seen in SoCal. We get BevMo too, which is offensive in its inoffensiveness, as well its ability to have 10 rows of beer, and next to zero unique or interesting bottles in all of those aisles. The primary source here for good bottle beer are stores that make their name in wine, who devote attention to beer and treat it pretty well, too.

But, that said, that's the way it's been everywhere I've lived. Best beer selection in Minneapolis? Surdyk's, which is known primarily for wine. In Indy? Khan's Fine Wines. Chicago? Sam's Wine & Spirits, and Binny's, which is also a store known largely for wine (and probably for whisk(e)y before beer). SoCal? At least for the parts of town I've been around, it's again wine stores: Hi-Times Wine, the Wine Country, Morry's of Naples (which is losing beer shelf space in favor of more wine, which is already the lion's share of their business).

In fact, outside of Pennsylvania (and thanks to their quirky beer laws), I can't think of any store that is primarily a beer store, anywhere. At least in the States. Maybe it is different in Oregon and Colorado. (Oh, duh, Belmont Station in Portland. There's a successful beer-focused store.)

Now that wouldn't surprise me at all. Sounds about right for the Bay Area. And the wine emphasis seems even more logical up there, what with Napa and Sonoma just up the street.

-Steve

Reply to
Steve Jackson

Also, Liquid Solutions in the 'burbs (Tyegurd! :-O) and up in humble li'l ol' Seattle WA, Bottleworks, and the Bottle Shop in Bellingham. Both OR and WA are "control" states, though; the likes of a BevMo or Sam's or Binny's (or Martin's in NOLA ... RIP?) simply don't exist up here, since private retailers can't sell hooch.

There's also an interesting little place in Renton (Seattle suburb, home of Boeing 737s and other stuff), the Red House; it's a wine shop, GoodBeer shop, and tapas restaurant. Nice place with regular tasting sessions. You can select any beer from the cooler and pay a corkage or "cappage" fee on top of the retail price, to enjoy with the house eats. Or you can order from the small (but well-chosen) selection of beers on tap. Anything like this elsewhere in the country?

Reply to
dgs

I regularly visit a specialty beer shop that sells nothing but good beer, and it has not so much as a speck of Bud, Miller, or Coors on the premises. The only concession to popular taste is PBR, and that's as more of a novelty item than anything else. It *is* possible.

IIRC, Belmont Station and Liquid Solutions in Oregon operate the same way. The margins on industrolager and the need to stock it chilled in mass quantities for quick turnover are more suited to supermarkets and convenience stores than to these specialist shops.

Reply to
dgs

Montana cities {Bozeman, Missoula, Billings, Great Falls} have a great micro-brew selection, even at most grocery stores. Pretty big micro-brew culture here.

No wierd laws for the most part. Oct 1 of this year MT finally enacted an open container law (last state in the union to do it), before then it was legal outside of cities to drink while driving down the road.. you just couldn't be drunk.

The only wierd law is the 'Brewpub' law. Back in 1998 the MT Tavern Association & the beer/wine distributors pushed through a law that required new brew-on-premise places to close at 8:00am.

So basically running a brew-pub here is not easy. There was one in Bozeman that did great.. but the idiots moved and lost their grandfathered status (so they couldn't brew on site in the new location). They also moved right next to their biggest competitors location (about 50 draft beers) and basically went out of business.

Reply to
nrichter

That's certainly how it has worked most places I've lived, including here.

Been fine. Yourself?

Reply to
Joel

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