A nice little hefeweizen..

ROCK ON!

Though I would say...if they called it something more honest, like "Wheat Ale," I'd let by-gones be by-gones.

BAH! If you're in Casper, Wyoming, then you should have either available to you there or close enough Tabernash Weiss and Flying Dog's "In Heat Wheat." Both are true to style and put S**TE like Pyramid or Widmer to SHAME. Get out there and look around, man.

Well, Bill, you're gonna get flambeed for this one. This is an old subject of contention in the beer newsgroups, this thing about "American wheat" beers, particularly the ones that insist on using the Germanic "Hefeweizen" term because "wheat ale" just doesn't have the same zing (and never mind that the vast majority of 'Merkins can't pronounce "Hefeweizen" correctly anyway). We tend to blame Widmer Hefeweizen for the original misappropriation of the style's name. In the most literalist sense, sure, American wheats are unfiltered, so they have yeast ("hefe") and they have wheat ("weizen"). In the broader sense of style, they do nothing but muddle the issue, confusing drinkers as to what a Hefeweizen should taste like. This amiguity would be absent if only they chose to employ the term "American wheat." Taken on their own, they're not particularly interesting beers, but can be somewhat refreshing on a warm summer's day, and still preferable to megaswill.

There are American-brewed Hefeweizens done in the Bavarian style. Someone's already mentioned Tabernash, down in Colorado; their Bavarian-style wheat beers are exemplary. The Gordon Biersch brewpub in my hometown brewed up a spiffy batch of Hefeweizen this past summer. There's a brewery on the east coast (High Point, I think it's called) that does the Rammstein wheat beers. Seek 'em out and try 'em, particularly the Tabernash, if any such beers are available in your out-of-the-way neck of the woods.

Time to break out the broken record:

Hefeweizen just means what beer with yeast present. It says nothing about flavor. Technically, they are correct. They're not calling it Bavarian-style hefeweizen. No deception. Trying the reverse of guilt by association? Sure. But, no matter how bland, it's still hefeweizen in the literal sense of the word.

-Steve

You have to have it FedEx'd from the trailer park in Georgia?

Bavarian-style

"Hefeweizen" means wheat beer with yeast present IN GERMAN, AUF DEUTSCH. This creates an expectation of German-ness, Bavarian by implication. Pyramid/Redhook/Widmer "Hefeweizen" does not deliver on this expectation. If someone lists "fromage" on their otherwise English menu card, I (at least partially) expect French cheese. I don't expect white American.

If someone offered you a used car, wouldn't you be surprised if they delivered a battered railway freight car? Hey, it's still a car!

Along with my lures.

Danke für die Erklärung. Ich habe das nicht gewusst.

Benutz hier das deutsche Wort für "duh".

Auch, ist es gut zu wissen, daß Du noch so einfach ködern kannst.

Maybe originally. Anyone who has such an expectation of such Bavarianness out of Redhook/Pyarmid/Widmer et al. these days hasn't been paying any attention.

Now, one could make a more convincing argument about the ill effects of people tasting a Bavarian or Bavarian-style hefe and wrinkling their noses going "eww, that tastes funny." But it's not an argument I see made often on this particular topic.

As I said, there's no question that these breweries are trying for respect by association.

Point. OTOH, I'd have probably done a wee bit of due dilligence before purchasing the car. Ditto the beer.

-Steve

Hehe....I don't mind getting flambéed once in a while... I'm not a real big fan of hefeweizens whether they be the real thing or cheap imitations like Pyramid. By real thing, I mean there are still a few bottles of Schneider Weiss around town; I tried it, I like it but I wouldn't make any kind of voyage in search of the perfect Hefeweizen. I reserve my trips(both physical and finger on the keyboard) for ass kicking IPAs, Pilsners, Porters, Stouts...umm..I guess just about every style of beer 'ceptin the hefes.

Good bit of info you gave me there though and for that, I thank you.

Best regards, Bill

You'd think so, wouldn't you? But no, the Colorado contingent is poorly represented in Casper. I'm talking New Belgium, Boulder, 1 Breckenridge beer, O'Dells and that's all.

Both are true to style and put

Sure, no problem.

Best regards, Bill

Heh.

Duh all you like, but you WERE steadfastly ignoring that point. Had to be made, if you weren't going to.

Becoming accustomed to ignorance is no excuse, particularly when there are other beers on the market that use the same name and are actually in the style implied by the name. Here in the East, f'rinstance, people are commonly put off by RedPyrMer "hefeweizen" because they are NOT Bavarianesque.

Honestly, most novices I've plied with the more drinkable examples of the style, like Franziskaner or Victory's Sunrise, have been pleasantly surprised by the style. So such an argument would not occur to me. "More convincing argument?" Strictly an opinion, Steve.

expectation.

It's a very small step from there to "deception," whether it's well-meaning or not. I mean, I'm not talking about arresting the Widmer Bros. for beer fraud. I'd just like to see a more accurate label on the beer. Cranberry Lambic, anyone? (Lew baits the hook hard, and trolls for Joels.)

I strongly doubt you'd put as much due diligence into buying a "car" as you would into buying a beer, given the relative costs! Besides, that's also ground we've been over here before: LOTS of people (most of them) don't read the fine print on beer labels, the best-by dates, the neck-ring descriptions.

ObBeer: we've been seeing a big surge of beer from Smuttynose lately, and it's doing their reputation well. People who have never tried it before are coming up to me and saying, "hey, that Smuttynose is pretty good. Is it new?" Nope, but if it's new to you...

"Bill Becker" wrote in news:bjmifq$kh21b$1@ID-

Good lord, man, hop in the car and go for a drive. Find a good beer shop in Colorado and make a day of it.

Ooops, they're not Schneiders...they're Kapuzingers. I bought a couple and just tried one. Good stuff.

Best regards, Bill

I'd do that(I've got a fav shop in Ft. Collins) if I can just get some days off!!!

Best regards, Bill

Using a German-language term in an English-speaking country certainly makes one expect something German-style, though. If I were to serve "sushi" that consisted solely of Gorton's Fish Sticks, would you not be unpleasantly surprised?

Around and around they go, where it stops...

-- Joel Plutchak Boneyard Union of Zymurgical Zealots

"Resorting to personal harassment is a tactic of desperation."

You know, if I ever find or hear about a German hefeweizen that doesn't taste of clove, banana, etc., I'm going to be all over your ass....

Seriously, I get your point (the use of the German term creating an association that's not necessarily accurate). But it would distintegrate, or at least suffer a serious blow, if someone in Germany started brewing something akin to Widmer hefe. Because it would still be, in German, hefeweizen, because it's wheat beer with yeast. Then what?

Guess it just goes to show how superior the East Coast is to, say, the PNW when it comes to beer.

(Interestingly enough, even when he's not around, it's still fun to bait Bruels.)

Well, if the whole point is that the use of the term leads to confusion, that would definitely be a negative aspect of that confusion, wouldn't it. I guess I don't see the harm - or near as much harm, to be clearer - with people not realizing that the stuff even can taste different. That's why I say it's a more convincing argument. At least to me.

well-meaning

Damn. That'd be cool.

Well, it's an age-old argument: at what point does a stop being a ? It's like determining how many hop cones can dance on the head of a barley kernel or something like that. Yes, some styles are generally accepted to be much more narrowly defined than others - I'd be pissed if I got a rauchbier with no smoke, for instance - but beer geeks can argue all day long about these things.

At the very least, we know we have a fallback if things ever get ridiculously slow around here. Just break out the hefeweizen argument.

Well, yeah. But, in both cases, caveat emptor applies.

Think I've had Smuttynose once. The Shoals pale. IIRC, Ringwood.

(Incidentally, had some actual Ringwood beer at GBBF. Underwhelming. And not much of what's clasically thought of in the States as Ringwood flavor.")

-Steve

You mean that's not how it's supposed to be served?

-Steve

Have you been out in that part of the country? Just getting from Casper to the Colorado border is a full day of it.

-Steve

I used to think that way. Then I moved to Munich, had hefeweizen just kilometers away from where it was brewed, and completely changed my tune. It's a different beast over there, or when something good from the States like Rammstein, when it's nice and fresh.

The weizen yeast isn't the most stable of creatures, and it tends to keep slowly chewing away at sugars as time goes on. As a result, the matl and yeast seem to be unbalanced to me when most hefes hit American shores. When it's fresh, the malt is nice and fluffy and rich. It has a great complexity that nicely balances the yeast characteristics. When that starts to fade, the yeast dominates. And the yeast isn't pleasant as a dominant flavor, at least to me.

I'll still pretty much drink hefe over there. Good thing I'm heading back for a visit in a few weeks.

-Steve