Saison

"bluestringer" schreef in bericht news:c7Axe.27469$ snipped-for-privacy@bignews1.bellsouth.net...

"Farmhouse ale" is a contemporary Anglo Saxon term for a few kinds of ale, mainly from the Hainaut - Picardie area (Belgium and N. France). Saison is the traditional top-fermenting ale from the west of the Hainaut province, mainly. Traditionally non-sweet, not very strong, quite attenuated and well-hopped, sometimes spiced. Saison Dupont is the best example remaining anywhere. Brewed at Dupont, Tourpes near Leuze (Belgium). It's available year-round.

Joris

Here's link that I think explains it pretty well.

Best example? I dunno (although, you, being Belgian and all, would have a much better idea than I would). Don't get me wrong: Saison DuPont is one of my favorite beers on the planet, and of all the outstanding beers I had on my visit to Belgium a month ago, the fresh bottle of DuPont was arguably my favorite (only a Westvleteren would give it a run for its money), I don't think that Pipaix or Silly are exactly dogs of the bunch.

Of course, I'm partly making an argument to make an argument. Saison DuPont is an absolutely outstanding, amazing beer. And when I did get the chance to get a fresh bottle (well, relatively; I was in Ghent), I was struck by how malty it was. No mistake, it still finishes dry and hoppy, but there was a fluffy maltiness that doesn't hold nearly as strongly in the bottles that make it to the States (although the Avec les bons Vieux holds onto that character better). It is without dobut a standout in a country of spectacular beers.

-Steve

Check Joris' post for a little bit of detail. It is a "regular" style, but of fairly limited production. (By the way, asking if it's a regular type ale is a bit like asking if something is a regular meat: the term ale is at least as widely variant as "meat" and the not-very-similar constituents such as beef, pork, lamb, venison, etc.).

If you're expecting an English- or American-style ale, you'll be disappointed. Saison has a bit of the lambic-style funkiness, but vastly subdued in comparison, but reflecting its "farmhouse" character. It's a good warm-weather beer, tending a bit toward the dry side and quite thirst-quenching. Some brewers spice them, some do not.

All that said, Saison DuPont is one of my favorite beers on the planet. Remarkably complex in a subtle presentation. Very nice bottles and glassware, too.

-Steve

"Steve Jackson" schreef in bericht news:rXGxe.2366$Yb4.1877@trnddc08...

Took me awhile to see what you are driving at - maybe still not 100% sure. If the bottle you had in Gent had a rather malty character, it was probably very fresh. Normally Saison hasn't that - and it's not even the idea. Mind you, I'm arguing from an historical viewpoint. On sites as Ratebeer, virtually all Dupont (not DuPont - that's American chemistry ;^}) products are to be found under the Saison category. In reality, only the Saison Dupont belongs there. To me S. Dupont is the best example (with maybe one exception) of the HISTORICAL Saison style: light, desalterating, fully attenuated, very easily drinkable. Saison was a winter-brewed beer, to be consumed on the summer fields; hence, NO residual sugars, light in ABV, certain acidity, quite some hops, easy on the spices. Today's S. Dupont is all that, with the exception of the ABV. 40 years ago, the same beer was only 4.5% ABV at the most. The possible exception is the à Vapeur Légère. Even in its original appearance, it is too much spiced to my taste, but it seems that today, it has been equalized with the à Vapeur Vanilla - and that is plain silly for a Saison. It's supposed to be beer, not ice-cream. I have never seen the book, but I know that Phil Markowski from Southampton P.H. has a book on Farmhouse ales out. We've been talking, so it is possible that some of my arguments are in the book too. Not that they are gospel, but they have a certain historical foundation.

Cheers, Joris

Thanks, sounds like something I would like to try. Is it like the Ommegang Hennipin Ale? I liked that one. Anyway next trip to the store and I'm going to pick one up and try it.

It's been at least five years since I've had a Hennepin, so I'm not sure. But my faint recollection is that, yeah, they're roughly in the same area code.

But hell, taking a chance on a single bottle never hurt anyone. It's certainly worth a gamble.

-Steve

Hell, going back and re-reading what I wrote, I'm not so sure even I know what I was driving at. Like I said, I think I was making an argument to make an argument. Because, yeah, I do think Dupont (sorry for the capital P, I used to have the chemical people as a client, and there's probably some residual bit of high school French and the typical meaning/usage of "de/du/des" sneaking in there) outshines any of the other examples of saison I've had.

At the risk of dredging up an old issue, is it possible you're equating maltiness and sweetness? Because that wasn't my intent. The Saison Dupont I had in Ghent was definitely dry in its finish, just as I would expect. But the up-front character had a stronger malt character - not sweet, but just the flavor of malt - than I've ever noticed in bottles that come to the States. It was still every bit the very quaffable, light-but-flavorful beer I expect it to be.

I find it interesting that you mention spices. Does Dupont use any? I don't really pick them up in there, beyond whatever the yeast is contributing. Whereas Pipaix and Silly have a much more pronounced spice character (and, if I remember correctly, Silly makes liberal use of spices, yes?).

Saison has always been one of my favorite styles and one of the ones I'm most intrigued by. It's a pity that it's not as prevalent as it once was, but it is good that some excellent examples still exist.

-Steve

I would hope not, no.

These days, Saison Dupont usually has a rather bitter aspect, though more greenery-bitterness (as Belgian endives) than hops-like.

Well - they DON'T in Saison, but do in nearly all their other products (as Moinette blonde & brune, Cervesia, Bon Voeux, etc.). That is exactly why I think S. Dupont still the best example.

In a lot of their beers, yes. It's really Jean-Louis Dits from à Vapeur that is the big defender of spices in Saison.

We agree 100% there. It's one of Belgium (nearly) lost grand styles, and I'd sometimes wish one could brew without any commercial hindsight. Just to recreate what's lost...

Cheers, Joris

"Joris Pattyn" schreef

Joris, would you think the Dupont Biolégère is more to the original saison at it' s 3.5% ? This is my stand-out beer for summer, or with an ordinary meal. Too bad they're out of stock at De Caigny.

Gunter (who's found his way to alt.beer)

In many ways, yes - and certainly on topic of the ABV. The problem is, is that the few times I drank this beer, it seemed rather young, with a lot of yeasty esters and even some faint sweetness. Given time, it might be well the case. I'm not out of the question whether they've added spices to this one, or that it is all a question of the yeast. Joris

"March" schreef in bericht news:qIICe.147516$ snipped-for-privacy@phobos.telenet-ops.be...

Joris, we had the representive of Dupont in Essen a while ago. He clearly stated that they don't use spices, only for the Cervesia.

Gunter (TAV didn't you correct me a while ago when I posted on top of the previous message?)

"March" schreef in bericht news:GGMCe.147658$ snipped-for-privacy@phobos.telenet-ops.be...

Unless they've completely changed their recipes, which I doubt, that's b*llshit; there used to be f.i. quite a load of Paradise seed in Moinette Blonde, and I suspect Avec Les Bons Voeux has the same.

SORRY! Mea maxima culpa. Joris