More Women

There's a lot of talk about attracting more women (and younger adults) to the joys of drinking ale, rather than other alcohol. And it appears to me that a lot of organisations/companies seem to be missing what I think are some obvious points.

Firstly, if you aim adverts specifically at women, it's seen as patronising, plus it will alienate some men. Therefore it would be better to promote in a way that was not gender specific.

Secondly, perhaps it would be a good idea to promote the right sort of products. I know a number of women that drink traditional (if there is such a thing) bitters and enjoy them. These are clearly not the women to win over. In my experience, the reason why a lot of women don't drink beer is because they have perhaps tried bitter, not enjoyed it, and assumed all ales/beers are the same. I think that perhaps the industry should be promoting some of the sweeter less astringent and milder brews. Bring back some of the brown ales and stouts that I was fond of in my youth. This along with the promotion of fruit beers and 'beer with food' information would probably do more good than images of attractive young women holding pints of ale.

What do you reckon ?

-- Regards The Ale-Fan

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Reply to
Ale-Fan
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Isn't that patronising though?

IME women like to drink the same beer as men but, like you point out, it's the gender specific imagery that's putting them off.

Reply to
Steve Pickthall

Possibly. My mother was weaned onto beer drinking with a glass of Cantillon Kriek which is hardly likely to fall into the classification of sweet in any persons mind.

Yes. In general women like to drink something suits their palate, which like any other persons varies from person to person and probably day to day.

Many people, women particularly, say they "don't like beer" and my counter is that since they almost certainly haven't tried the beer range of the world they simply haven't yet found a beer that they like. Which of course isn't the same thing at all.

Reply to
Steven Pampling

You're probably right there !

Reply to
Ale-Fan

And the parochial attitudes in the real ale sector.

Reply to
Steve Pickthall

I reckon that, to attract women, you have to attract anyone. I became interested in real ale through a circuitous route - my interests in history and family history. IMHO Camra should be wanting to attract people who believe in real ale and are prepared to get involved in it, whether they are male, female or Martian.

Reply to
Pandora

I agree, and made that point about this years GBBF booklet.. it "para-phrased" said your female, you don't know, here's a few beers you may like etc. When a female friend saw it.. well you can guess. It should of been written so it covered people from abroad, the (about to be) lager drinkers... in fact anyone who needed a few tips.

Taking a slightly different view.. why does someone not drink real ale? My first few thoughts;

1) For some people is a volume thing... a pint can be seem quite big if your used to the odd glass of wine, short etc.. and a half-pint glass is not "romantic" or "sexy"... drop the half-pint and go for a contential feel.. more an oversized wine glass shape. 2) Reliability of product. For example with wine you would get 5% or less corked (from memory).. and it's almost out of the hands of the seller (unless they are complete muppets!). The same can't be said for real ale... 3) I don't think it's about sweeter beers... I think it's about less bitter beers. Some people don't like "bitter" english beer (remember the first time you tried it!... you do have to get a taste for it) yet they would be happy with something like Leffe.

Just my 4.5ml worth.. well thats what you get beer wise for 2p :o(

Mark

Reply to
Mark Blewett

I think the problem is with pubs. They are overwhelmingly male environments, and women can't go in them with the same ease that a man can.

Reply to
loobyloo

This might have been generally true in 1973, but are the generality of pubs and bars really so offputting to women in 2003?

I often see a pair of female friends, or all-female groups, in pubs and bars.

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"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." (William Pitt, 1783)

Reply to
PeterE

"Typical back street pub"

A common part of a description in the Good Beer Guide. What picture does it conjure up for women? Men need not answer that one - you'd only be guessing, as would I.

However, the picture I have is somewhere I would quite like for a contemplative pint, but it might not be the ladies favourite simply because what I'm looking for is the common mans equivalent of the gentlemans club.

Reply to
Steven Pampling

Point taken, but the "typical back street pub" is nowadays less typical of the average person's pubgoing experience than a Brewer's Fayre, Spoons or All Bar One.

That's what I often look for in a pub, but unfortunately it's harder and harder to find.

--

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"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." (William Pitt, 1783)

Reply to
PeterE

"PeterE" - a made-up name if ever I've heard one - said

Yes, that's it though - they need company. They can't go out on their own to a pub in the way you and I could at the drop of a hat. Not unless they wanted to be thought a bit "loose".

There are exceptions of course, but I think it's a shame that after all these years of women's lib, women still don't have the freedom to go down pubs by themselves.

Reply to
loobyloo

But perhaps it's a bid sad a bloke going in a pub by himself, unless he expects to meet people there. (Not that that's ever deterred me...)

--

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"Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves." (William Pitt, 1783)

Reply to
PeterE

Steven Pampling6/12/03 12:49 PM

I was brought up on Tyneside where the idea that all "southern" beer was like piss and all southerners were poofs. In fact the beer was probably no better or worse overall than anywhere else in the UK and in latter years was most definitely worse than many areas. Micro brews on Tyneside - like everywhere else - are becoming big business now.

The description of any beer as piss, pish, dishwater, or anything else is sadly unhelpful in these more sophisticated times. I don't think there has ever been such great choice of beers around the country and around the world as there is right now. I don't think there has ever been so much appreciation of good beer and good beer making as there now is. The same goes for wine and whisky.

We are lucky to be living in such times. We are spoiled for choice.

I do like a dark mild. And I can stay sober-ish when I need to - not to be able to drive I might add!

Lager mostly lacks taste for me and it's also normally sold too cold for me which masks any taste it might otherwise have. My theory is that people who drink say Budweiser - the brewed under license UK style stuff - do not really like the taste of beer anyway, but just want something long and cold and bland.

Nothing wrong with that, but it must be boring. One such lager drinking friend - a guy in his 60's - recently started trying some of the cask bitters I drink when we went out for a chinwag. He just said he wanted to try something different. What was I drinking? There seems to be no stopping his experimentation with beers now.

Well you mentioned Holsten Pils earlier. The lady in question is an insulin dependent diabetic, so she needs to be careful and aware of calories and residual sugar content to keep a blood sugar balance.

When it came to beer, she'd always asked for Holsten Pils at one time. Holsten used to advertise the fact that "more of their sugar turns to alcohol", but I don't really think it was a really significantly measurable factor and AFAIR is about 5% ABV ?

These days she drinks virtually any lager when she has one. However being comfortable with the "right" lifestyle drink is still what the marketing is all about. It's just that fewer and fewer people are swallowing that marketing bullshit anymore.

CR

Reply to
Chris Rockcliffe

"PeterE" - a made-up name if ever I've heard one - said

Yes but you've probably got friends :)

I am probably in pubs on my own at least as often as I am with company. Sometimes I just can't face the tornado of our children straight after work, so I go in the pub alone for a couple before going home. I also like to sit and read in pubs by myself. Many times of course, you get into conversation anyway, but I'm quite happy with my own company in a pub.

Or am I really a saddo? You've got me worried now :)

Reply to
loobyloo

Oh dear, I was born in Sheffield (somewhat south from there) :-)

[Snip]

[snip] I did say he was Scottish ;-) Tact is optional. I used his words to illustrate the point, which is that for many people the issue is clear cut "pish" or good. Although possibly due to my influence he can deal deal with the concept of "less like pish"

Maybe I should teach him "badly made" and "well made"?

It's one of those nice tasty items that you can sit and talk over (as you mention below) possibly not everyones taste but then most people that don't drink it are doing so because of an image rather than experience.

The old tosh about it being the leftovers of other drinks all tipped back is as applicable to almost any other brew although the keg products tend to be somewhat more difficult to tip back into. I once had a sample of something that came from the Tetley Bitter pump, I identified lemonade and lime flavours along with what I swore was a cheap lager and definitely gin. Local T.S staff found a wider variety of items than I'd managed to identify from a small amount of a half pint sample. All illegal of course. Soon moved that oik on. (Which I think touches on the the beer was OK until the cellarman got to it theme, which as we all know is only part of the story)

Most of them want to drink something that they've seen advertised and their mates drink. The cold helps the bland, and the bland helps them not object to the taste.

Often the case. I started a few guys in the office on tasting different things available in Tesco and Safeway (bottled) sometime back and they are regulars for "something decent from a handpump" (their words) One even arranges his holiday locations to match with availability of decent beer.

As I recall that issue is more complicated that the average man assumes and the fact that more sugar has turned to alcohol doesn't actually help anyone with a diabetic condition. Just the opposite.

The lady would probably be better off with a pint of the aforementioned mild. I could check with the dieticians but they would probably want an analysis of each of the beers in question before making any definitive statement. In general though significant quantities of alcohol are just as much bad news as sugar.

Market image and the cold and bland just about sums that up.

Sadly I don't think that's true. Or if it is the difference isn't yet in large numbers.

Reply to
Steven Pampling

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