Q: Licensing Bill reform

10th July 2003.

Robin

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Oh! didn't know it had become law, as I have not noticed any difference! :)

Simon

That's because they still have to issue the various orders etc. to actually implement it, which will apparently happen early in the new year. The actual changeover is supposed to take place in autumn 2004. So you won't see any change for a year or more I expect.

5:46 PM

The Licensing Bill was passed in July, but there follows an 18 month or so period of transition - in force until early 2005. You won't notice any real difference for a good while yet. What difference were you expecting?

During 2004, both old style and new style licenses will exist. New requested opening hours and new operating plans are then to be assessed and approved by Local Authorities and phased in. The L.A.s will now take over all responsibilities for Licensing from the magistrates.

I'm not any kind of expert but it does concern me, because as a small time and occasional event promoter, I am now legally responsible for the full compliance of any licensed venue I use. I did not know this before as I thought the pub had to have a PEL and that responsibility was purely down to the owners. Licenses are going to have to be displayed on the wall in a secure manner surely?

I recently lost a very important venue because of a greedy Pubco change of policy by the manager. Real ale doesn't even figure there now, so I guess I should be glad - but there's more to it than just beer.

Anyone who doesn't think this Bill is going to be another LA revenue builder in a year or two, should think again IMO. The Govt. and DCMS have handled it very badly so far (so what's new?) and at the moment it is all just a shambles.

IMO, the whole Licensing Bill is just a blatant NuLab attempt at trying to win more young votes in the next Gen. Election. Hence no License will be required for say wide screen football and associated hooliganism or loud recorded music. Yet a folk band in the pub will be treated like a "Grade A health risk".

Lawyers - including those expert in such matters - say that the Bill as passed and at present, is unfair, unbalanced, riddled with stupid contradictions, ambiguities and uncertainties - all yet to be tested out in the high street and in the courts.

We will be stuck with this crap for years that's for sure. IMHO, there is much worse to come yet with this Bill, which was badly thought out and unwanted by so many different parts of the community. Like everything in life today, there will be winners and losers everywhere.

What could have been an opportunity to just get rid of some stupid outdated nanny state legislation, has resulted in the most draconian legislation on Liquor Licensing and associated entertainment we have ever seen.

It could only happen in England and Wales. The rest of the EC, must be laughing their bollocks off at us.

For instance, I've just found out that the event "concession" granted to the

26,000 registered member clubs in England and Wales (as a pre Bill sweetener) is actually going to cost them all dearly. 2000-3000 quid extra per year in a typical case I just looked at - much more than I even thought.

For each event - say a monthly concert, they will need to have separate permissions; each a separate announcement in the local newspaper; each a separate fee to be paid; and for all I know a separate certificate of safety etc. I'm not sure whether it constitutes a tax or a protection racket? All this for doing no more or different from what they are already doing now.

As for the other "PEL" elements of this... Don't even get me started.

CR

That's as may be but my local authority have already said they can't afford to fully implement this act and so I wonder whether there will be any convergence in provision across the country.

/SNIP/

At the time I 'signed' the petition which helped water down the bill. Immediately afterwards I wished I'd left it alone, because it was stupid enough to have failed. I fear that many pubs will cease having live music, possibly changing to wide screen television and/or recorded heavy music:-( Who on earth would put *anything* into the hands of local authorities under the pretension of efficiency?

Alan Perrow29/11/03 8:43 AM

You put it very succinctly. I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that way. But this is not new - there have been political hidden agendas since the beginning of time. All the Govt. had to do here was stoke up the fear level to start the process. I think that is exactly what Minister Kim Howells was doing.

PEL law was always going to be a legal minefield. When I and others made the suggestion many moons ago that the gathering anti-Bill lobby (which included lawyers pointing out the many anomalies) was only helping to make the stupidly thought out Bill, more workable (doing the Govt's work for them) it was dismissed as a political damp squib.

Ignoring it might - as you point out - have actually hastened the Bill's demise. Or by giving a wad to Max Clifford to help fight it, the MU might have had a more effectual method.

But that would have been too clever by half, and is not the way of those who prefer to fight for righteous causes with a high moral ground. It would fly in the face of human nature - however sensible.

I think inadvertently the anti-campaigners and some very good legal brains in the Musicians Union, the House of Lords and even the Church Of England sorted out many of the legal contradictions surrounding the Bill.

Like what constitutes "entertainment" and why - even in unlicensed premises like village halls and churches - and why all entertainment should be "illegal" if not licensed. Or why loud recorded music in bars is exempt from a license, but someone playing an acoustic guitar is illegal without one - or why live carol singing in the street is now to be illegal, but recorded wailing from a mosque isn't.

This Govt. and the DCMS are a disgraceful bunch of liars and spin-mongerers. The truth about these reforms will come out after the dust has settled - and only after the next General election.

That process has already started AFAICS. Worse is to come.

Yup.

CR