Threatened pub

its alright complaining that these are closing but if there are not making money because you and I cannot afford to have 5 pints and drive home and still keep our licences, they are not charity shops would you run a business for next to nothing or sell the land for 2 million or whatever I know what I would do and its no use using the excuse its traditional as a reason, Pit ponies and boy chimney sweeps were traditional it did not make them ok, Kevin

We recently made the Chequers at Barkestone le Vale our 2006 POTY. It is a tiny pub hidden away in a tiny village of say 300 inhabitants.It has no car park and has no kitchen so it basically serves no food(although there are barbecues in the summer) Yet the pub thrives thanks to the imagination,hard work and personalities behind the bar. The present POTY is the Marquis of Granby at Granby.This is the smaller of two pubs in a village of 290. Four years ago it was struggling to sell 2 firkins a week. In 2003 it came within a whisker of being the CAMRA national POTY ; it sells on average 1.5 new ales a day and has already sold nearly 1500 different brews; there are 7 handpumps for beer and one for cider.Again,it is the enthusiasm,graft and personatities of the landlord and landlady which brought this about. This indicates to me that given the right people very few pubs really need to close.

Anyone care to translate the above?

"I've just sunk eight pints of Fosters and kebab"

John B

John B15/11/05 10:47 PM

That should help.

CR

Local Pubs, Shops, Post Offices etc, close because local people don't use them... They just whinge when they aren't there anymore.

In article , Funfly3 writes

This is the sort of ill-informed drivel that is always trotted out concerning pub closures. In the case of The Star at East Ilsley, it was trading quite profitably until it was sold to the new owner about 6 months ago. The current trading figures show that the pub is still profitable, but perhaps not as profitable as the new owner would like.

Under the previous owner there was a Christmas Club, a monthly whist drive, dances, birthday parties, CAMRA meetings, conferences, charity carboot sales (£5000 raised for air ambulance over 3 years), and a flower show. The village trust fund committee and the "Evergreens" met there. The dining room doubled as a function room. Most suppliers and staff were local. The nine letting rooms had a 60% occupancy (I'm told that this a pretty high figure in the industry), and was used by Compton Agricultural Institute, Didcot power station, Harwell Energy Authority, Newbury Showground (all year round), racing people from the stables in East & West Ilsley, etc. The licensee didn't just rely on drinkers. I have no information as to whether these activities are continuing under the new owner, but it would be significant if all or some of them are not.

There was a case in West Berkshire a few years ago where a country pub was purchased by someone who, within six months, announced that the business was unprofitable and applied for change of use to a dwelling. Unfortunately, he got away with it, and the pub was lost. On the other hand, ten years ago there are two country pubs in the village of Inkpen which were both the subject of applications to convert to dwellings (one was actually granted). Thanks to vigorous campaigning, rather than the pathetic attitude of Funfly3, they are both now thriving businesses

Someone with a suspicious mind might well suggest that the new owner of The Star bought it with the intention all along of making a huge profit by converting it to dwellings rather than running it as a pub.

People may well think that; I couldn't possibly comment!

"Nigel" wrote

Not entirely true, a lot of local pubs close down because they are worth more as houses and in some cases are deliberately run down in a cynical attempt to get Change of Use.

In the right hands any rural business has a chance, but once its gone its gone.

Rob

On Tue, 15 Nov 2005 12:55:39 +0000, valeofbelvoirdrinker wrote (in message ):

You make a valid point but you also make out that it is mundane and accessible traits that could make these pubs successful then in the last sentence highlight how exceptional they are.

Enthusiasm, graft and suitable personatities that are prepared to go potentially unrewarded are not easy to come by.

In this area we have a "loss of amenities" clause . Anyone wishing to convert a pub has to prove that it cannot be profitable.Some years ago a landlord deliberately ran down the Red Lion in Stathern.Permission to alter use was refused because although it was running at a loss it could have been profitable.The landlord had to sell at the bottom of the market and the pub is now the AA Pub of the Year! We have rather a lot of good pubs round here :-)

AKA most if not all successful businesses. Pubs are no different.

And sometimes people don't use them because they are badly run.

In this case the OP was doing something before things got that far.

the pub is now the AA Pub of the Year! We have rather a

would that be the Automobile Association or Alcoholics Anonymous.. either way I'm a bit surprised they promote pubs :-)

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 17:27:57 +0000, Brett... wrote (in message ):

Certainly yes, but in this case what is in effect being suggested is that the people with enthusiasm, graft and suitable personalities forgo personal reward (without any chance of that abating) and avoid readily available products with better margins.

Getting out and selling the land for £2million is exactly what any other business would do.

"Steve Pickthall" wrote in>

That is not what is being suggested at all. If that is the case then by your philosophy then absolutely no one with the above qualties would be interested in running rural pubs and they would all just wither away. However there are plenty examples out there that this is not always the case and there are many examples of pubs being repreived going on to be sucessful.

Of course they would if they could get away with it, however as it is not as easy to set up a replacement business then it is only fair that they are not allowed to just do this without any sort of proof that the business is viable. In the main it appears the rest of society agrees with that and should not be dismissed with the dismissive 'use it or lose it crap'argument which does not always recognise the circumstances surrounding the Change of Use proposals.

Rob Shanks

and the resaon they are woth more as houses than businesses is because not enough people use them.

you only have to drive round Friday night and see how packed these real ale rural pubs are some even have cars outside??

The two pubs I have mentioned were bought for very small sums as failing businesses. I believe one was under £100 000 and the other was just over this , a few years ago. A similar sized domestic property in the same villages would have been valued at several times this. True, a pub can generate income but the rate per hour isn't great!But both the pubs I mentioned are free houses and that makes a lot of difference. Both pubs involve the local community. I went to the Chequers last Bank Holiday Monday-there was a mini beer festival and the Monday was family day.The street was just full of people of all ages,and whatever you feel about children in pubs I thoroughly enjoyed the feeling of involvement. This pub has gone from cask only to 2 handpumps to 3 and now 5.Often there's a mild on too. The phrase "Use it or lose it" is true. But it takes the right people to convince people to use it.

And there you have the nub of the problem. In my village (something like

The 'locals' pub had been built up by the previous landlord - it was a true freehouse - who used to feature many microbreweries, and had a passion for keeping his beers as close to perfect as possible. He had two beer festivals each year, and a loyal and steady group of customers.

He sold the place on with a really good business formula, but the atmosphere changed almost immediately.

I don't think the place has been run down deliberately - it's taken 3+ years, but custom has dropped quite dramatically, mainly because the present owners just weren't suited to the trade.

Now the planning application is in for conversion to a total of 7 flats.

It takes years to build a good reputation, but it can be lost almost overnight!