Infection????????

I recently did a batch of Amber Ale that has turned out awfull! This is the first batch since I started over a year and a half ago that has not turned out. (Around 20 batches of beer, 5 meads, and 2 ciders) I've made this recipe about 4 times before this. This time I tried an all glass fermentation as opposed to plastic/glass. I also used my homegrown hops, dry hop, for the first time. When I bottled the beer it seemed a lottle "thin" but I didn't notice any off flavors. After bottle conditioning it has a "styrine" or "antseptic" taste. It's really bad. I have no prob dumping if need be, but could this age out? Is this an infection? Where could this have come from? I Sanitized as I usually do for every other batch. The only differences were the all glass, and fresh hops. Can you get an infection from fresh hops? Thanks,

Reply to
DragonTail281
Loading thread data ...

On Fri, 21 Oct 2005 18:38:58 -0500, DragonTail281 wrote (in article ):

Glass should be better and more easily sanitized. The reason plastic is frowned upon is because the scratches tend to hold small amounts of past batches. With plastic never go from a Weiss to rootbeer the results can be explosive. Unless your stopper seal isn't too good I'd tend to look elsewhere.

I'd say that the dry hopping could be the cause. Anything added after the boil should be sterilized in one way or another. You can use the Microwave, steam, or UV. The UV being the best way but steaming is just as effective. The Micro can work in a pinch. Spread out your hops and give them a misting with a spray bottle. Then nuke them until they steam. Steam has the disadvantage of making them soggy although the juice from the steam is quite potent also and adds flavors quickly. I have a UV lamp (old project) and like it better because I believe that heating the hops does take away some flavors you get when dry hopping.

You just have to remember that anything grown outdoors will carry many different yeasts and bacteria. Most no good at all in beer. Any fruit should be washed thoroughly in a sulfite solution. Hops would absorb the sulfites so this isn't an option.

I am going to try smoking (no pun intended) the hops as a way to add more flavor while disinfecting them. Most smoked beers are to heavily smoked for me and I want to try a milder more complex smoked beer.

hope that helps

Reply to
oDDz Bodtkin

Yea, I was going to mention the fruit flies. I recently picked some hops and stuck them in brown paper bag so they didn't rot. Well they kind of dried out, opening wide up, and there were hundreds of fruit flies that hatched. Then I stuck them in the freezer and will probably boil them one and all when I figure out how to pasteurize already frozen huckleberries so I can add them to the secondary fermentor. Do you think campden tablets might help, just adding them to the fermentor with dry hops and berries to insure a contamination doesn't take root? What would you suggest. Any help would be appreciated.

-gcitagh

Reply to
G_Cowboy_is_That_a_Gnu_Hurd?

Reply to
DragonTail281

Are you reusing the yeast from trub cultures? The only thing I can think of it might be from is not rinsing your bottles properly or that your bottles are plastic. Coke always tasted better in a glass bottle as I recall. Maybe the cholramine in your water has finally reared it's head, use campden tablets, only like one will remove sulfides and chlorine from water and will drop out in the trub when you rack to secondary. My last batch has turned out a lambic as the yeast's generation has gotten up there and is thus, sour. Thinking of adding fruit juice and racking to a secondary. That'll be a first. What do you think?

-gcitagh

Reply to
G_Cowboy_is_That_a_Gnu_Hurd?

On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 12:16:31 -0500, DragonTail281 wrote (in article ):

I use dried fresh hops to dry hop. UV only takes a few seconds. I exposed them stirred and repeated 4 times. 40 or so batches and never any bad batches, yet.

Freezing may kill some yeasts but it fails with most bacteria. It only slows them down.

A friend did some growing of hops. I believe he started picking a bit earlier than he though he'd have to. He said they continued to blossom until dried. He didn't dehydrate them quickly. Here's a link with real information:

formatting link

You could use your oven like a dehydrator to dry them. Give them a UV session and freeze them. They'd be ready to go out of the freezer bag.

Reply to
oDDz Bodtkin

Another question... If I use my homegrown hops in the boil, will I have to use any of the "sanitation" methods mentioned in the responses to my dry hop question? Am I safe in assuming that the boil will "kill" the nasties? If this is the case, I'll stick to using my homegrown for the actual brewing (boiling) and buy hops for the dry hop. Thank again, Michael Herrenbruck DragonTail Ale Drunken Bee Mead

Reply to
DragonTail281

yea, boiling does sanitize stuff, among other things like carmilizing malts and so on. Even store bought hops aren't sterile though, just so you know, you have to put them under the UV light yourself if that's enough of a concern. In dryhopping, one is competing with the microbes already established and the low pH, interestingly enough, bacteria and other microorganisms won't grow on pure sugars as it so readily sucks up water, but dust on the sugar is like a seed in wait.

-gcitagh

Reply to
G_Cowboy_is_That_a_Gnu_Hurd?

On Sun, 23 Oct 2005 14:09:12 -0500, DragonTail281 wrote (in article ):

That you can do with no hesitation. The boil will kill all nasties.

Reply to
oDDz Bodtkin

Personally Ive never had infection that I could point to dry hopping. Hops anti bacterial qualities are one of the reasons why hops are used in beers. Evidence of this is in the history of the IPA. You can get the same bittering qualities from other herbs with out the use of hops. No offense but I think most of you arepointing in the wrong direction in the cause of this infection. The tatses created that he is describing sounds more like a bacterial infection, which would not be living or even on a hop plant. If for some reason you had bug eggs on hops that you used, those eggs would not cause those flavors in the minor amount, nor would they harbor bacteria to cause this infection. Inproper sanitation is the cause of this infection in my opinion. After 10 years of all grain brewing I can tell you all that your giving misinformation. Sorry but its true..

Heath

Reply to
Heath

On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 22:08:04 -0500, Heath wrote (in article ):

Heath-----------------------------------------------------------------

Yes if you are using mass produced hops. They are treated with sulfur dioxide to kill bacteria. He's using his own home grown hops and those are not treated. And yes, they do carry bacteria and stray yeasts. The anti-bacterial properties are in the oils and are released during the boil and have nothing to do with what lands on the plant while it grows.

I really don't care what you say, I will not add anything after the boil without knowing 100% that it is safe. For me that's a simple UV treatment. For your brew I don't give a shit what you do. Telling someone to be unsanitary is the only wrong thing I've heard so far.

Reply to
oDDz Bodtkin

Geez I wonder what brewers did before they had UV lights microwaves and access to sulfur dioxide? I also as brewer try not to impose my parnoid brewing procedures but I guess I cant speak for everyone. Oh and btw alot of companies that mass produce hops, dont use sulfur dioxide, dont use UV light and many, many brewers use these sources aswell as large brewerys. Just recently there was a show on the brewing network, that was talking about hops and this very thing. I beleive its archived for all to hear. A head brewmaster was taking questions and this very topic was asked by one of the audience. So obviously I dont impress you but you might try opening your mind alittle and explore your misdirection and misinformation.

Heath

Reply to
Heath

On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:47:25 -0500, Heath wrote (in article ):

Heath-----------------------------------------------------------------

Then name me a large brewery that does dry hopping. They will not take that chance when you have as much money invested in a batch as they do.

I have found only two mico-brews that did dry hopping and guess what one is out of business. And guess why. They lost 30% of their batches due to infection. The other does just what I do and UV disinfects their fresh hops. They lost one of their first two batches to infection and won't use untreated hops again. I know this because I happen to work there. There is a reason that commercial brewers don't dry hop. The risk is too high. If they do dry hop I'd bet they use hop pellets which are treated with sulfur dioxide.

If you don't think there is a risk then you're a fool.

Reply to
oDDz Bodtkin

Oh let me see, sierra neveda dry hops most all their beers, ommegang, mad river CO, Russian river brewery, petes wicked (which owned by HMMM) Samuel adams(boston brewery CO) List goes on and on. Many of those listed are not really "micro" brewerys anymore so Im guessing they're doing something wrong according to you. You just dont know what your talking about, and just because you've either adopted someone elses bad information or came up with this on your own doesnt make you worthy to give someone else any concrete knowledge on this topic. Im done arguing, Im trying to pull this thread out of a hole and give the real reasons for the infection. You my friend need to do some research. I will say I admire your persistence, but in the end your just way out in left feild without a glove.

Oh and btw, sulphur dioxide is a preservative. Read up on it some time.

Heath

Reply to
Heath

give it time. i promise. unless you are a dirty brewer, then all bets are off.

Reply to
changey

That dreaded styrine or antiseptic off flavour I know only too well. You definitely have an infection, solution: throw it, & be watchfull in future.

In my case it is years since I had this problem. In fact it bedevelled me in my early brewing days. I could always taste the infection after fermentation & it never goes away after bottle conditioning My buddies were all making consistent & acceptable brews but despite how much care I took I seemed to periodically get the brew infected with results as you describe.

Eventually we moved & mysteriously the infection rate dropped dramatically; what changed I'll never know. Everyone agrees the key to avoidance of infection is:

1) Practice sound sanitation of all equipment & brew in a clean location. 2) Ensure your yeast is working within 6 hours of pitching. Some ways to guarantee this are: Pitch with two packets of yeast, preferably from different batches, pitch at optimum temperature for the yeast & select a robust yeast with a sound reputation. Throw away any old yeast packets. Personally I prefer to pitch onto the brew & never use a yeast starter. You can control the critical start temperature using boiled water or pre-chilled water. Filter all added water with a good quality filter & do not trust your tap water.

Reply to
peterlonz

My father brewed beer at his house before I was born and when he moved to the next house he had problems. His house backed onto a cemetary ( :/). I just wonder if the air is somehow affected by all the decomposing substances (even though they are below ground) and hencec making the atmosphere, lets say, different.

I understand one of the principles is keeping the air out, but that is during fermentation. Before fermentation, at baking mashing and worting the local air is in contact with the hops and barley. The mash sterilises the barley but there is little chance of keeping the air out of contact from the ingredients, even if only for a second or two, but those seconds could cause saturation of the surface of the ingredients.

Maybe try air conditioning?????

What 'industries' do you have local? What is above and below the ground local to where you live?

Decomposing refuse causes methane and other chemicals to enter the atmosphere, and not much stops the airs about the house becoming the airs inside the house...

Just a thought.

Reply to
Billy H

Something that we seem to take for granted in this group is the our brewing water is sanitary, That may not always be the case. If all other sanitation seems good, try boiling the brewing water then cooling (especially if using no boil LME such as Coopers).

Avery Brew on brother! SW US desert

Reply to
Avery

DrinksForum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.