Gyokuro question

Robert snipped-for-privacy@newsfeed.infoave.net9/14/05

Robert,

That's an interesting and scarey observation. Perhaps Dog Ma could help with the chemistry. Why don't you guys connect and we'll get to the bottom of this. BTW, not so long ago, somebody posted a series of articles from journals of the 19th Century in which this issue was discussed in regard to Chinese teas at length -- around a hundred and fifty years ago.

Michael

Was that here in this group? Do you recall the thread name? ........................................p*

pilo snipped-for-privacy@news1.west.earthlink.net9/14/05

I thought so, but maybe not. Anyway, TeaMail for sure.

Michael

Good grief, I hope not. It would be very easy to tell with a spectrophotometer, but I'm much too important now actually to do any honest lab work. Or maybe they just don't trust me around expensive equipment.

Anyway, rapid cold-water extraction of color from tea shouldn't be too surprising; works on plenty of other vegetables.

-DM

I woulkdn't be surprised.. Gyokuro is a remarkably green steep while most 'greens' are actual\ky a golden color. Perhaps it's th way the leaves are cut?

The extreme "greenness" comes from the tea plant's being grown under a tarp, causing more cloriphil (sp?) to be produced. Plus Japanese greens are steemed rather than roasted.

I think...

Cheers, Nico

Dog Ma 1dF3We.43448$ snipped-for-privacy@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net9/14/05

Well, as had been suggested elsewhere I think, it would be quite surprising when experience in this case suggests the contrary. That the Japanese wouldn't necessarily poison themselves for a deep green brew doesn't mean they wouldn't happily poison us, if we were willing to pay for it. (Please don't tell me how inappropriate that is; I already know it. Promise to try to put a lid on it.) Seriously, and this in response to somebody else's comment, have you looked at the ingredient list of those packaged Japanese sweet and/or salt crackery things lately?)

Michael

snipped-for-privacy@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com9/15/05

Nico,

Wouldn't limiting light reduce the amount of cloriphil (sp?) produced in the leaf? After all, if you leave your house plants in a dark closet, they will turn pale yellow. Tulip shoots newly poking from the earth are yellow until they get a dose of sun, at which time they turn green. I'd think it'd be the opposite.

Michael

Works both ways, actually. Complete shading results in etiolation, or bleaching - plant doesn't bother trying to make chlorophyll. Probably thinks it's still underground, and grows leggy instead. If light is too strong, it will also produce less chlorophyll, as less is needed to capture the required energy. Look at a shade-tolerant plant like a big-leaf rhododendron growing in full sun: the exposed leaves tend to be yellowish, where those deep inside may be full green.

Clever lady, Mother Nature.

-DM

Dog Ma 1bHcWe.44805$ snipped-for-privacy@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net9/15/05

So, the shading causes the plant to produce more clorophyll to capture more energy, as it were? Very clever, indeed.

Michael

Here's a relevant experiment: let the chartreuse liquid in question sit for a few hours. It should oxidize to brown. If it's still a virulent green in the morning, I'd say that is proof of artificiality. Of course, oxidation isn't proof the other direction.

Also (and excuse me if someone else has mentioned this), I've seen several gyokuros with matcha (pulverized green tea) added. So I suppose, if it is one of those, one could say it is dyed with matcha.

Best,

Rick.

You raised my curiosity so I tried it on three different Gyokuros that I have. All are from different regions in Japan and also 3 different vendors. I put 1 gram of each in a shot glass and then added 1 tablespoon of cold water. Each one resulted in greenish liquor, to varying degrees, after sitting for 2 minutes.

Interesting....

Mike

I guess charteuse is dyed with gyokuro.

I don't find gyokuros greener than other uncovered senchas. Gyokuros tend to be deep green but deep slightly-yellow-green, while there are sencha that turn more blue-green if processed in a certain way.

That's it. The senchas that are microwave-steemed tend to get the most irreal green. Freeze-drying also keeps greener colors to herbs but I have not heard they did it for tea in Japan (for herb tea in France, they do it.).

Also there is a stuff I don't remember the English name that is used to keep vivid colors to preserved vegetables. Supposing they wanted to cheat, that'd be easier to rinse the leaves with that than to dye them. I don't think they need.

Kuri

I thought the color was mostly chlorophyll, which isn't all that soluble in water? Otherwise, the water you boil spinach in would turn green very quickly. Now, if you make tea with ether and acetone instead of water...

--scott