I had no idea tea was so trendy

A delicious irony. I thoroughly enjoy a good afternoon tea, but were I to take one today, I'd almost certainly drink coffee instead of tea. Reason: I can make a better pot of tea at home than the hotel can, and I rarely enjoy a good coffee these days, so would take advantage of it.

And about rushing coffee: I had an outdoor coffee today; a glorious Sydney blue-sky day; Sydney Harbour Bridge to my left, Opera house to my right; no rushing at all.

Cheers, Gavin

Gavin,

Trusting cafe tea is a bold thing. I'm of a similar mind to you, in that I tend to pick coffees while out - unless it's a place that's likely to turn out a good tea. The usual horrific sight of a pot of boiling water and a Twinings / Lipton teabag dangling out of it doesn't usually thrill me either. :)

Toodlepip,

Hobbes

P.s. It's good to hear some testamonials from slow-walking coffee drinkers, it's a rare sight. If you look down our High Streets, or peek into a morning train carriage, all there is to be seen are worried-looking people, hunched backs, vacant stares plugged into an iPod oblivion, clutching their 500ml macchiatomocchachinospressos. Just say "no", folks.

Precisely why I almost never order hot tea in American restaurants. However, in London, and for 35 pounds (64+ US dollars), the tea had better be outstanding. If it isn't, the customers are being thoroughly fleeced.

BTW, I am surprised there hasn't been more comment on the price. For 64 USD, I can get a very good dinner in a very good restaurant here in the US. It is mind-boggling that people wait in a 6-week queue to pay that much for afternoon tea in London.

Randy

It's a fair point, but that's the Ritz. It is the quintessential English hotel, and one of the most famous eateries in the country. I don't know how to translate it into American. It's high price, but it's not a fleecing. In the famous London hotels, you can definitely get what you pay for.

Hotels for the English have traditionally formed part of our cultural subconscious. They're not (just) places that you'd go to spend the night (not that I could afford to stay in one for very long!), but they're more meeting-places, beautiful places, elegant places. They're a piece of the Old World preserved and enriched through generation after generation of use by people who want that little bit more.

I'm sure that they attract the common vulgar celebrity type who wants to flash their money around, but they're also more than that, which is why we love them: they're genuinely and sincerely good places to be.

N.b. That's not to say that they won't rip you off. They're just businessmen. But, on the whole, you can pay a lot of money and expect a great deal for it. The service and the environment are as good as the quality and preparation of the products. You're certainly paying for the name, but for a little slice of heaven once in a while... I'm not averse to it.

No doubt there are people who have had bad experiences, and I expect to read a barrage of such replies (heh), but you can get ripped off anywhere. Like every place in the known world, you have to be careful with your money - "a fool and their money are soon parted", after all - but, in general, the London hotels are quite trustworthy. They wouldn't still be here after all those centuries if they weren't, on the whole.

London hotels are a part of the English Establishment, and I'm very happy that they're still with us.

Now if only I could afford to enjoy them more often... :)

Toodlepip,

Hobbes

snipped-for-privacy@m73g2000cwd.googlegroups.com7/5/06

Randy, isn't waiting in a six week queue for afternoon tea antithetical to the tea beast? Michael

Wow, I just read that Moby's joint charged you $40 for a hopeless afternoon tea. I can only say that:

1. I would have done the same in your position, to try it out and see what all the fuss was about.

1. I would have drawn the conclusion that he's fleecing his customers, trading only on his name. There's simply no excuse for shoddy cakes, bad tea, inelegant surroundings.

I should also point out that the difference between a pop-star's cafe and the Ritz is like comparing supermarket's own brand of teabags to your favourite Oriental looseleaf. Moby has absolutely no business in charging anything near a London hotel, excepting a clear desire to make money out of the gullible.

(Where I would define gullible to be people who go there more than once!)

Toodlepip,

Hobbes

Oh, no, I'd classify it as gullible. Don't be afraid to call a spade a spade, you won't hurt my feelings. I knew full well what I was getting into, except for the fact that I really had thought they would be serious about the tea... proper brewing temps, amount of tea, etc. Heck, even just being able to order my pot of Pi Lo Chun by name instead of getting a blank stare until I said "#29" would have been nice. I knew it was all downhill from there. The lady next to me having the $18 Tea and English Heinz baked beans on toast seemed to think it was a wonderful time for two pieces of toast and two tablespoons of baked beans... ugh.

While the Ritz is certainly a high-class affair, it is still all out of whack with the real point of it all. There are quite a few high-brow places to pay big bucks for an English tea, just like the place near my house... they have a great place and the food is very good... but honestly $100 (or even just $64) for a cucumber sandwich, a scone, and some Earl Grey is a bad deal no matter how you slice it in my eyes. The whole point is a nice informal tea, to make it formal and expensive just for the sake of doing so is lame IMO.

- Dominic

Sure, it does sound silly to pay $60something for tea and sandwiches when you put it like that - but you're not just paying for high quality goods at the hotels I mentioned. :)

My only suggestion would be to go and have a look around one of these places, and talk with the staff. It's a beautiful place, and it's a refreshing change to have witty, polite service (at least in England!).

On the English scale of things (not sure how it works in the US, relatively), the cost of a superbly beautiful afternoon tea at a world-famous hotel like the Ritz would weigh in roughly at about the cost of a dinner at a good restaurant in your local city. Given that the Ritz is so, so far above the average provincial English restaurant in terms of quality of produce, and quality of service (not to mention the truly opulent surroundings), it doesn't seem *too* high a price. At least on the English economic scale.

$18 for beans on toast is utterly farcical, though. It sounds as if Moby is trying to gouge whomever he can. I'd not put him in the same league as the (good) London hotels, though.

But, getting back to the main point, I'm very happy that the profile of tea drinking has been raised. We all do it, here, but it's nice to see that the gentrified, genteel version is becoming popular again.

Not because I'm on a crusade for everyone to know lots about tea (which would be wonderful, however unlikely it is), but because I'm happy that people are holding up the ideal that it is a good thing to be elegant, and to enjoy something slow-paced and delicate.

I don't know if you're familiar with English culture at the moment, but it can be quite rough. Children will swear and curse at strangers, and even threaten them with violence. There are currently campaigns underway from the UK Government called "Respect", to try and get people to be more polite to one another. As our country grows into the modern world, it is vitally important that we don't lose the good manners and politeness for which we are (or at least used to be) famous for.

You see good manners in certain sections of the population, but the "common man" is now tending more towards unruliness and poor manners than was previously acceptable. Against that background, I'm genuinely happy to see people rediscovering the afternoon tea rituals that have been neglected by most of the population.

Anything that helps the majority of the populace regain a little of their polite and genteel heritage is fine by me. Certainly, not everyone is going to be taking $60 afternoon tea in the Ritz, but the revival in the public consciousness is very welcome.

I like it when people slow down, enjoy themselves, and each other. Leave the Starbucks to the McDonald-munching junky, and look for the finer things in life, I'd say to them. :)

Toodlepip,

Hobbes

Oh, I'm aware of what is all involved, I just find it a bit to high-brow for me personally and even at a lower price it would not suit me. I'm not saying that there is anything wrong with it, just that for me tea is a peaceful and tranquil basic indulgence. I'd be happier to have a more standard English tea at a home where it is more personal. But that is just me. To me the journey is the goal.

But this is my problem. It won't be slow-paced and personal, or even slightly enlightening. When something becomes trendy and hip, it loses that grounding. It becomes the exact opposite of what it is.

Unfortunately that is a problem everwhere, respect, intelligence, thoughtfulness, hope, and real enjoyment of life is in short supply and getting shorter and to some extent almost a negative thing these days. I read an article the other day that summed up the current outlook on life, it was titled "How to retire by 30." The entire article was about getting a degree and working in a high-pay, long hour, job with no personal satisfaction while living in an efficiency apartment and doing nothing else even going so far as to state that dating and marriage as well as children are off limits while suffering for 10 years so that you can then retire... What do you have to retire to at this point then? What will you reflect on for the next 40+ years? That is pitiful, but exactly what the common outlook on life is. To some extent I'm stuck in the same kind of thing, as most are, like it or not.

Priorities are all messed up. It would be nice to hit a collective reset button to go back to a simpler existence. Brewing and enjoying tea is as close as I can get to that, along with being outdoors, hiking, camping, kayaking, fishing, etc... People have lost their grasp of what is real, and important, and grounded in life, that is why I find it sad and disheartening. They will buy their "premium" tea and brew it in their "premium" teapots while wearing their "premium" clothes and sitting on "premium" furniture and go through the empty motions but miss the real beauty that is right in front of them that could show them a whole new way of life.

- Dominic

Two exceptions I will made: The Blue Talon restaurant in Williamsburg, VA, and Legal Seafood in Boston. The only two places I have actually had good tea in a restaurant in the US.

--scott

Not to go more OT, which I'm good at, but while I was in NYC we ate Peking Duck at Mr. Tangs and they served a pretty good Pu-Erh as the restaurant tea. The manager was pretty impressed that I picked up on it instantly, and I was pretty impressed that they had a real tea and well brewed.

- Dominic

Hi guys That is hysterical,Michael. We only have one teahouse here, small menu of food, lots of tea mostly flavored but the ambiance, well you take your food if you choose not to eat in the main dining area crowed sometimes only 4 tables, giant wicker chairs, Tea made for you to order in glass teapots with removable basket if you want to. Or go to the big room, tiled by gift tiles given to the place by their customers, giant pillows on the floor to relax and drink your tea. Two people can dine and tea for about 14 USD, now only if they had my favorite oolong.... or any puer. A very nice place but no very good tea mostly fruited tea, tisanes, and some greens. It is so hot here in South Texas most people drink iced. So I go to the place for the food and ambiance and drink my lovely very good teas at home. BTW do people take their own teas to restaurants? Still to me tea=peaceful Jenn

Wait. How is it he didn't instead get a lot of people saying, "didn't I ask for tea?"

--Blair

Heh, I thought the same thing. That is a pretty bold move, I'm not sure if it was because we were there later in the evening or not. The only other people in the restaurant were having a huge 12 course meal fit for kings and they seemed to be friends with the owner and manager so that may have been why they had good tea and we just reaped the benefits by dumb luck. I don't know, but I was just as surprised as anybody.

- Dominic

I never have, but others have posted that they've done that.

Bringing a T-Sac might help.

--Blair

snip

I can definitely understand that comment...I know for a fact I maker better tea (to my taste) at home than out. For one thing, if it's at a coffee shop I get it in a paper cup which changes the taste right there. It's usually in a teabag and even the silk ones or the ones that hang over the edge of the cup change the taste for me. My theory is that it's too little tea in too much water (usually 12 ounces) and the milk isn't right, the temp isn't right...and the loose tea they are starting with is probably not the best either, or the storage of it.

I will say the one good cuppa that I was eternally grateful to find was a strong Irish Breakfast blend out of (yes I know but it really was good) a hot pot dispenser (that was only for tea!!) at that English Muffin place in Seattle (The Crumpet Shop?) I actually COULD drink a few cups of that and it tasted good. And they had mugs. It's just a little hole in the wall place but that's what I'm talking about when I want a cup of reinforcing tea. :) Their smoked salmon on an english muffin was pretty good too..

Even in gourmet coffee houses, where they obviously spend a lot of attention on the taste and quality of their coffee, I see tea really done carelessly. I got coffee from an independent coffee house this weekend, and they had tea..."pan-fired" green tea (how's that for generic?) in a clear glass jar up on a shelf, in 100 degree weather. It's things like that that make it impossible for me to have tea out...I don't want to throw away my money. It still feels like tea drinkers are second class or afterthoughts here in the US. If a shop is going to offer tea they should care enough to do it right, even if they don't have tons of choices. For someone who is a true tea drinker, the trendy and flash isn't going to do it. I find myself being so picky when I go out and see the tea selections...

And as for having "formal tea" out...for me personally the tea with little sandwiches and doilies thing is really something I want very rarely. I also have trouble making myself pay $5 for a pot of tea out that is just not that spectacular. I haven't had the opportunity to visit a real gung fu establishment though, I think that would probably be a lot better. Has anyone been to ITC's tea shop, and what did they think?

Melinda

I ate dinner at Danny Ng's restaurant in NYC not long ago (which incidentally is highly recommended), and when I asked about tea was told they served Bo Nay. I said that I didn't like pu erh and wondered if we could get a red tea, but was told that bo nay was different than pu erh. And the tea was indeed a mid-grade pu erh. Not to my taste although you might want to try it (and you should definitely try the handmade noodles).

--scott

Yeah, Bo Nay is just Cantonese for Pu-Erh (Mandarin) although I sometimes have seen Bo Nay mean a mixture of Chrysanthimum and Pu-Erh. I've only seen it served alongside Dim Sum at one restaurant near Pittsburgh (besides the Pu-erh at Mr. Tangs). I didn't like the Chrysanthimum version.

Of all the things to miss about NYC, it is mainly the wonderful variety of food that has me wanting to go back. Forget the tourist sites, and the glitz, I'd be happy to stroll through Chinatown or Central Park for entertainment and try to eat at every restaurant in NYC. I'm still mad I didn't get to eat at the Argentinian Steakhouse in Queens, I think it was called Boca Juniors. Thanks for mentioning homemade noodles, now I'm hungry and my wonderful lunch of Domino's pizza is seeming woefully inadequate.

- Dominic

Scott Dorseye8jjg0$1h6$ snipped-for-privacy@panix2.panix.com7/6/06 14: snipped-for-privacy@panix.com

Bo Nay/Bo Li is Cantonese for Pu'erh. Danny's people are full of it. BTW, when I walk into a Chinese restaurant in Chinatown, if the ratio of Chinese faces to others among the clientele is too low, I turn around and walk out. I also turn my back on table cloths. Yup, a bunch of Caucasians eating on table cloths is a definite Chinese restaurant turn off. And while we're on the subject, any restaurant that makes it into the tour books is definitely OUT. Look for the ducks hanging in the window and the old guys reading newspapers. Smile and point at what you want. On the other hand, if you think offal is awful, think twice.

Michael

Michael