Guardian - Beer-v-Wine with food.

In article , MikeMcG writes

Except it was most likely written by the Editor, Ted Bruning.

Following on from MikeMcG's message. . .

Stupid idea. Why spoil the taste of fine beer with food.

And also! Pubs are for ale not grub. Stop turning pubs into restaurants. Observe the difference when a party goes to a pub[1] for beer they chat to the other customers and participate in the life of the pub, but meal-goers keep hunched in a little private clique.

Following up to MikeMcG

Beer not suitable because its not a protein? Don't get it? I often enjoy a few pints with a traditional english pub meal when out walking without problem. I can see that bulk could be an issue and obviously fizz would be a disaster. Acidity presumably aids digestion in the case of wine, what's bitters acidity? I rather see it the other way round, I dislike drinking without food, full stop.

cross post added as should interest the foodies.

For me, the role of beer in dining is a precursory one.

Several pints /before/ a meal increases my appetite and enjoyment of the food, whereas during the latter stages of eating or afterwards, I find my desire for beer rapidly diminishes.

I cannot understand these people who eat a big meal before they go out drinking - I wouldn't feel like going out if I'd just eaten.

BTN

of course - hearty, humble apologies. Mike

Following up to Peter Fox

With drink drive awareness this is the way most non town pubs will go. I would welcome the civilised approach seen in places like Italy and Spain where more moderate amounts of food and drink are consumed, always together. Returning to the UK, it opens your eyes to the vulgarity of swilling pints till you nearly fall over. Not that I have not done it myself a thousand times.

Several pints of anything and where do you put food? The average stomach holds 1 pint.

Training, Judith, years of training.

what about a "public bar" ;~)

about pubs fully turning into restaurants (& ostracising drinkers) I really dislike that - there's a foodie pub near Henley - Brakspear's Crooked Billet, Stoke Row, I think(?), but I never went to it - food prices were supposed to be v high & I was told that they didn't appreciate drinkers.

Previously (1970s-80s) a couple of beer-writer (Michael Jackson & another) had used this pub to indicate how a perfect rural local should be - welcoming to all ages, good beer, maybe some simple food, old pub games, etc, etc. (great photo of about 50 people aged from about 5 to 80 years all smiling outside the pub).

about good food in pubs - if it's done well - fresh ingredients, well-prepared & the place still feels like a good pub (&/or or people eat in separate room) then I'm really all for it & I think can make a big difference to a pubs viability & appeal to more people. (e.g. BlueBellBell 'o'th'Hill near Whitchurch & many other do manage all of this)

Brakspear's had another pub just over the Henley Bridge from the brewery which used to have cutlery, mats & tablecloths on every table, when me & 4 chaps from the brewery turned up in overalls they looked like they might faint! cheers Mike McG

Following up to KeithS

Teh, heh, Judith, an Englishman worth the name can drink a pint of beer in one go, if he plays rugby probably two. That's one reason why English beer is not fizzy or ice cold! But then as you know, we are mostly the size of small trees and "beer gut" is part of the english language although that has more to do with calories. :*)

Also for some reason, after drinking large quantities of beer, we will eat *anything*. This explains the continuing existence of the kebab shop.

But not for long:-)

Graham

Snoooort

Me either. As far as I'm aware neither beer nor wine would be classed as 'protein'!

I don't, um, see a problem with the fizz? But the alcohol content of some wines could do you in. At least beer passes through quite quickly :-)

Dunno, but your stomach acid should require no assistance from the acidity of wine.

I don't mind a glass or two of wine or beer without food, but one has to choose something that doesn't need the contrast of food to show it to best advantage.

We'll happily drink wine or beer before a meal, or with it. Which we choose depends on the meal; I want a nice beer[1] with my bangers and mash, not wine, but I want a hearty red wine with my pizza, not beer. I'm absolutely certain someone (the chap at the Marches Little Beer Shop in Ludlow) could suggest a light beer to accompany grilled fish (even though I might not be able to buy it locally), but I like the excuse to drink white wine. And so forth...

regards sarah

Following up to MikeMcG

Its sad that too many go to far, a beautiful pub by the Thames (the Trout) that attracts boaters and walkers, so has a viable beer market, has not now got a good place to stand with a pint even though it easily could.

Following up to sw

Makes me feel bloated. Even without food. In fact I cant drink more than a couple of pints of fizz.

I'm used to it!

I thought the thinking was the extra acidity helped things along?

Anyway, i'm off for a pint.

Graham sgrìobh,

It's rented isn't it?

message news:...

I believe so, cycled there one summer's day to discover *all* tables laid for dinner/lunch (separate debate!), with red & white checked cloth & candles, and wine bottles around the wainscotting. The Brakspears Bitter was Ok though expensive. The internal walls were untouched but the ambiance was not at all what I was looking for.

Medical evidence shows that the stomach has a strange tendency to pass various things through. Any tendency to retain such things as liquids for any real period of time is probably a symptom of an ailment brought on by the consumption of things like whine. (no that wasn't a typo :-)

First off, thanks to Mike McG for posting the cites from the Guardian...it's been ages since I've posted on a ng, and Mike got me inspired to do so. As I post from the US, spelling will be our version. After I do this post, I will return to hibernation under my rock.

Canadian beer writer Stephen Beaumont convinced me of something very simple: Creating a meal that incorporates just enough beer in the preparation of each course to uplift the flavors, and matching a beer for each course allows two very fine things to occur: by virtue of 'thumbing one's nose at the convention of wine at the table', guests really get into trying to decide if a particluar beer contrasts with the course at hand, or compliments its flavors...and this doesn't really happen a great deal at 'wine dinners' which we know somuch more famiiliarly. Also, the food which is served itself gets greater attention. I once enjoyed a dinner in London with Mike, Peter Alexander and 12 other friends that featured beers paired with each course (not truly biere d' cuisine/biere a la cuisine because the coruses prepared at Oriental Pacific did not integrate beer in preparation, though).

The ' protein argument' is foolish. But you know journalists sometimes...Starch is also comprised of proteins, and on a more fundamental level, one could blab on about Free Amino Nitrogen (60-300 ppm would describe many a fine beer). One could as easily share that beer has greater "resonance" and wine has superior "vivacity", or that beer is "low-sulfite" and wine is "high-sulfite" ** as ludicrous reasons... the former obviously stupid, and the latter accurate*** but of no relevance to the question of compatibility with food.

Reid snipped-for-privacy@fell-walker.co.uk ...offers some points I'd like to respond to:

...you know, I don't fully understand a phenomenon myself, but beer before dining is recognized to increase appetite of the diner. I don't have the cites just at hand, nor do I really know the authenticity of this statement...but you see somethiing several times but different respected writers and reserachers, and it makes an impact.

...I'd disagree that carbonation is but a short-lived concern. At most one is internally "managing" 5 g/L, and that value exceed most British ales, and our stomachs are wonderful at flashiing-off CO2 when it warms in the acidic environs of our digestive system. Masking the beer burp is probably the biggest issue!