Rose Tea

The benefits of Pink Rose: Healthy looking skin, remove body fatigue, and calm unstable emotions.

Thank you

Helen

little_star snipped-for-privacy@yahoo.com.hk (Helen) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:

Hello Helen and Hes,

I happened to notice your correspondence. Strange that one person would ask a question about the benefits of a relatively obscure product, and another person would respond something that sounds like a bit of marketing literature. Stranger still that while one person posted from an address in Canada, and another from an account that is ostensibly in HongKong, BOTH articles were actually posted from the same ISP in Canada (Shaw). This raises a question. Can you honestly tell us that you two don't know one another, and that this wasn't a set-up to mask an attempt to advertise a product? Some people might take such a deceptive practice as a reason to NOT buy the product in question.

Debbie

Here we go. Agaian Debbie-007 most probably caught another deceptive case.Well, done.

How did you find out they are from Canada Debbie?

Ripon (From Bangladesh)

snipped-for-privacy@dhaka.net (Ripon) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:

Many articles have a header field called "NNTP-Posting=Host". In your article (to which I am responding), that field contains the value "202.84.36.31". That is the Internet Protocol address of the computer you used to post the article. There are various tools for figuring out the name of a host computer when you have its address, also who is responsible for that address, who registered a domain, etc. These tools are often freeware or shareware. They are available for Windows, Linux, etc. (I am sure Macs too, but I can't suggest specific examples.)

In this case, the articles had IP addresses in the NNTP-Posting-Host field that were suspiciously similar (24.65.61.45 and 24.65.38.123). The first two octets matched. (Each number separated by dots is called an octet, because it represents an eight-bit number.) That was quite a coincidence. I wondered if both belonged to the same ISP. I used a tool that implements a function called "whois". It can take an IP address and tell me who owns the address. Sure enough, both addresses belong to Shaw, a large cable operator in Canada. As far as I know they don't operate in Hong Kong.

Just to stay on topic, last night I enjoyed a nice pot of chai, brewed from a mix of tea and spices (not from a box of concentrate). It was just the thing as winter winds have turned chilly. The weather forecast says that tomorrow will be the first day this season that the temperature stays below freezing. Brrr!

Debbie

So the first two octets designate the actual ISP? I would have thought the last two do, with the first two designating a broader, geographic region. Much like, say, the way country codes and area codes are for telephone numbers. With IP addresses, it's the other way around?

--crymad

The first octet *can* represent a country (some countries have easy to filter ones; others have a range of first octet numbers. I suspect in this case that Shaw has disjunct numbers, but neither were Asian/Australian.

It was open stage night in rec.food.drink.tea, when crymad stepped up to the microphone and muttered:

For the sake of simplicity, the following description is VERY generalized. But, basically, there's no way to know exactly where a network is located simply from looking at the IP number.

IF we take an example IP address of "111.222.333.444", the different numbers represent the following items.

111 = major trunk network or primary network 222 = main network 333 = subnet on main network 444 = specific machine.

The Internet is not "nation specific" so it doesn't matter what the first numbers are with respect to where the network is located. Hypothetically, 111.x.x.x could be in the U.S., while 112.x.x.x is located in Russia.

What matters for most of us is that the DNS servers have the right IP associated with the right name. For example, I have a .us domain, but my host provider is located in England.

If you want to know the physical location of an IP address, you either need to do a traceroute or look up the IP address in a WHOIS type database. It's not as if you can memorize the "country code" as you can with phone numbers.

More information than you probably ever wanted to know can be found at:

crymad wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@xprt.net:

No, actually it's not that simple... or simple at all.

IP addresses are divided into two parts. The first part identifies a network. The second part identifies a host system (like a PC or a server or a switch interface) inside the network. It has nothing to do with geography. It's just a way for the people who run a network to obtain a number for their network, and for them to assign numbers to things attached to the network.

It used to be there were some rules for how big the first part of the address was (which dictated how much was left for the second part). But the Internet grew to be much bigger than its designers ever expected. It began to run out of usable addresses, because the rules worked in such a way that there just were not enough addresses that could be used for very large networks. So some new, backwards-compatible rules were created to get around that. I would probably bore most folks on this list if I tried to explain here. The long and the short of it is that how an address is interpretted is by matching against a table. You can't just look at an address in isolation and tell. Also, the first part of an address (the part that identifies a network) doesn't have to be an even number of octets long. You really have to compare the binary numbers. However, if you do see two addresses that match up past the first octet, it is reasonable to wonder if they belong to the same network.

Oh, and just to make things more interesting, an ISP can own multiple networks (of course). So, if two addresses start the same way, they might belong to the same ISP, but if two addresses look completely different, they might belong to the same ISP anyway.

It is best, of course, to drink a cup of tea while contemplating these mysteries. :-)

Debbie

Derek wrote in news:Xns9444BDA4834CDdagwinn@

130.133.1.4:

Nope, sorry, that's wrong. (We are discussing my professional specialty here.) That's not even the way that the original class system was envisioned, back 20 years ago. IP addresses have a two-part structure. The first part identifies the network, the second a number within the network. The length of the first part is pretty arbitrary. Any structure in the second part is up to the owner of the IP address block. Visit

and read RFCs about CIDR for all the details.

If you got that from the Cisco web site, well, maybe that is the problem. I've heard too many versions of the story where Cisco tells its customers that the Internet was invented to connect LANs together. They may be the biggest router vendor out there, but that doesn't mean that everything they say is correct.

Debbie

On 01 Dec 2003, Debbie Deutsch posted the following to rec.food.drink.tea:

Nope, sorry, it's not. It's extremely generalized and dumbed down. But it doesn't even conflict with what you've said below.

Which pretty much says what I gave in the example. The first two numbers specify the network. The second two numbers specify a local machine.

We had two PCs in our project office on campus.

160.94.19.130 160.94.19.96

The first two sets of number specify our network, the third a "branch" (so to speak) and the last being the unique number of each PC.

My example was horribly dumbed down and incomplete. It was a simplified example, kind of like the Bohr model of the atom - it's not really what an atom looks like, but it gives you an idea of how it works.

The details - which is what I acknowledged I was leaving out from the beginning.

But the point wasn't to go into all the details - which would probably bore everyone but you and me. It was to give an understandable example.

Possibly. But what they "offered" does not differ significantly from what I was told from the networking personnel at the University when I was working computer support - I probably annoyed them by asking a LOT of questions.

Then again, I haven't run a statistical test for significance - maybe it does differ. :)

An accurate, simple explanation would have said there are two parts to an address, that the first part identifies a network, the second part identifies a computer or other system attached to the network, and that there's nothing to do with geography in the way network addresses are structured.

What was incorrect about your "simple" explanation was that you added details that are not generally true. In this case the details were four levels of hierarchy for allocating addresses, when in fact the standards and routers only deal with two. Some network administrators might make up extra hierarchy as a tool for allocating allocate addresses that way, and perhaps it was done that way in the university where you worked, but there is no standard rule that says that network addresses have to be allocated that way, and any bookkeeping/allocation scheme that a administrator builds on top of the standard two-part structure isn't seen or used by the router. If you had said that it was an example of how network addresses could be allocated, that other ways were possible, and that allocation is different from the two-part structure that the router sees, that would have been correct, if not necessarily simple. But you were telling the group that addresses are necessarily allocated and structured in a certain way, in four parts, and that's just not the case. In fact, one of the key elements in the design of the IPv4 address space is that it is completely flat, not at all hierarchical as you portray. Internet routing protocols would work entirely differently than they do if addresses were structured rather than flat.

Here are two examples of the consequences of the IP address space being flat. They both contradict your explanation. First, two network addresses may begin with the same octet or octets, and yet be completely unrelated to each other - on networks that are thousands of miles apart and owned by different organizations. OTOH, two network addresses may start with completely different three-octet sequences, yet both be owned by the same organization, representing adjacent subnets and connected via ports on a particular router.

The networking personel where you were working computer support may have been telling you how they did things... a particular example... or they may not have been as knowledgable as one would hope. My background is more than 25 years as a network technologist. I have contributed to the design of protocols used today in the Internet. I have also been a product manager for routers for a major vendor (no, not Cisco)... and specified the IP protocol support down to the nittiest grittiest detail. The development engineers would have let me know it if I had anything wrong... The press would have been quick to point out egregious errors like not understanding IP addressing in their reviews... Customers would have complained mightily. What I say about tea may be only my opinion, but when it comes to the basics of IP networking I think I am very firm ground.

Debbie

It was open stage night in rec.food.drink.tea, when Debbie Deutsch stepped up to the microphone and muttered:

What you wrote above explains the who thing better than my example did anyway.

At the risk of being contrary, not "generally true" does not equate with "wrong."

It was AN example, but inclusive of all. I thought that was clear - obviously it was not. It was never intended to be a definitive description of IP allocation. Just one example of many.

Lack of clarity on my part - or rather, lack of specificity.

Derek

Debbie DeutschXns944516B395C10ddeutschmaultraxetco@216.196.97.13212/2/03

02: snipped-for-privacy@ddeutsch.org [Read Debbie's entire post elsewhere.]

Debbie, I think you're doing a splendid job of exposing the spammers and hopefully discouraging them -- a service to god, man, and technology.

I'm downing a few delightful cups of SpecialTea's Lin Yun White Down at the moment and listening to Mahler songs, procrastinating and worrying over some lost papers due in the central office immediately if not sooner, which they ain't gonna be. Help.

This calls for another cup of tea.

Michael

| An accurate, [snip] the basics of IP networking I think I am very firm ground.

More importantly, what is the price of Rose Tea in China? ;-)

Debbie & Crymad:

Thanks guys for your explanation but the problem is I have been lost in space. Sorry, I don't understant this kind of IT language that much. I think we can close down this issue. if I have any problem I will personally contact you. Reminds me some another Topic where everything became little indecent at the end , though the topic was a simple quistion. I withdrawl my question. Lets have a good cup of tea and relax. Thanks again.

Ripon (From Bangladesh)

Michael Plant wrote in news:BBF2059E.18348% snipped-for-privacy@pipeline.com:

Well, gee, thank you! How is the Lin Yun White Down? And a fellow Mahler devotee! (tho' I tend towards the symphonies over the leider).

"Dave" wrote in news:sb2zb.29965$_h.15208 @lakeread02:

Beats me, it looks like it is being sold in Canada. Having said that, SpecialTeas does offer a rose-scented/flavored Chinese black tea (quite traditional, actually) that I rather enjoy on occasion. I don't know if it has any health benefits, but it sure is pleasant sipping on a quiet evening.

Debbie

It was open stage night in rec.food.drink.tea, when Debbie Deutsch stepped up to the microphone and muttered:

More importantly, it *is* being sold by my LTS - and I did have some on hand. But the other half swiped it and took it to work with her. :(