iodine

The iodine-like element in some malts, sometimes called Islaydine because it's most pronounced in the Islay malts, is more usually described as phenolic.

Google on single malt and phenolic and you'll find a host of relevant links. Try this:

I suspect that's asking too much. There is art and perhaps a little magic involved in producing a good single malt. I greatly doubt that the people who oversee that process rely much on chemical formulas. More likely they follow traditional methods and use their noses and palates to decide what works.

I've never seen such a list, and I don't know that I'd find it interesting.

bill

Hi Marjon

I can reccomend the book "Appreciating whisky" by Phillip Hills

Most of the book is about why whisky taste the way it does...

Iodine or is it medicinial is a flavour coming from the peat smoke which adds some phenols to the liquid

Phenols are a special kind of alcohol. What we normal refer to as alcohol is liquid containing ethanol (pure spirit)

An alcohol contains the chemical group -OH and the most simple is methanol CH3-OH (it's not very healthy...) and the next simple one is ethanol CH3-CH2-OH. Phenols are a special group of alcohols - C6H5-OH is the simplest. What makes phenol so special is it's shape. Molecules with the same shape tend to taste similar. Tasting and smelling are the different receptors in the mouth and nose (especially in the nose) being triggered by the shapes of it's surroundings (mostly food and vapours from the food you eat or drink)

Smoky whisky can IMHO very roughly be divided into two groups. Smoky or medicinial or mix of the two. I have never encountered the iodine or medicinal taste in dried (with peat) barley malt, which always have a left-over-ashtray flavour (the nice way...:-) ) So the difference must come from the pot stills I believe, and the cask maturation. What really happens in the still and in the cask is very complicated and no one really knows

Steffen.

I was

Seaweed does have a high content of actual iodine (chemical element "I"), that's for sure. Actually seaweed is a major source for iodine. And peat on the coast can contain a proportion of seaweed. I believe there are different opinions on wether this can survive burning, destillation etc and influence the taste in whisky. I'm afraid I just don't know wether iodine can be or has been proven present in a whisky.

I see other replyers mention phenols. Phenols ARE traceable and measurable in whisky and are mesured in ppm (parts per million). But we are talking of two different taste elements here, aren't we? Also some inland whiskies can have a high phenolic level and hence be called peaty. I may be wrong here, but I haven't heard of other than coastal (particulary Islay) whiskies being described as tasting of iodine? The term "medicinal" in tasting notes can be a little confusing, both iodine and phenol are used in medicine.

Gunnar

Being that the question is one of causation, not pure substance, something occurred to me: iodine smells less like "iodine" than does Laphroig. Therefore, in order for actual iodine to exclusively cause the quality to which we refer as "iodine", a single dram would need to contain a lethal dose of the element. In fact, the nose of Islay whisky does not really smell much like iodine, although Laphroig has the color and vague sensory reminiscence of iodine, which I suppose is the genesis of the term. Like the rest of the group, I'm clearly not a chemist, but if iodine does exist in the whisky, it would be at best incidental. The scent comes from peat smoke. John

PS (OT) Does anyone hate Google groups beta as much as I?

I am a chemist - old bachelor degree of chemistry in the cupboard some where..:-)

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How strong is the iodine solution you refer to here? For preoperative and other skin desinfection a solution of 0,1% iodine is used, and as I remember it, it smells rather strongly.

Lethal dose of iodine is believed to be app. 2-3 grams pure iodine. That is a lot! Actually lethal dose of phenols is about the same amount!

But peatsmoke is used in every destillery. And not every whisky has that iodine - or "iodine" - smell and taste. The particular character of the scent - and taste - in say for instance Laphroaig, if it comes from the peat smoke, comes from the smoke of the local peat used at the destillery. And it differs from other whiskies peatsmoke-character because the peat differs. So the question remains: What exactly gives it that special character? I stick with the seaweed-theory for the time being. But both seaweed and peat contains a lot of different components/elements. I won't argue that actual iodine necessarily is the answer here. But I still believe it can be part of it.

Gunnar

I don't think that's true... I thought that every distillery on Islay uses peat, that being the only source of energy on the island. But in some other (mainland)whiskies you can actually taste coal-smoke. And many whiskies son't have peat taste at all!

Marjon

Personally I don't believe in the seaweed theory and I haven't heard of anyone finding Iodine- the compound - in any whisky. But correct me if I am wrong ? I strongly belive that the iodine character comes from the peat, that is some special phenolic compund formed in Laphroaig but not in the other Islays. One thing to remember is that Islay whiskies all get their peat from the same place. The Port Ellen Malt Factory. It is made with specifikation for each distillery so they get the phenolic content they wish. So if iodine in the peat straight-away then it should be in all the Islay-whiskies....(except bruichladdich and Bunnahabhain which is very lightly or non-peated). BUT Laphroaig whisky is made from only partly Port Ellen Malt, the rest is malt produced at the destillery itself. You could imagine that this laphroiag malt is the source of the iodine (Maybe the dig out from the sea bottom I don't know). But over time they will have to cut peat from a lot of different places. Anyway... According to the Book "peat smoke and spirit" by andrew jefford laphroig did recently make a destillation for two weeks on purely Laphroaig malt (The ultimate Laphroaig) and to their big surprise they discovered that the iodine had gone missing... So it is not the peat itself (the variety of peat) that produces the "iodine". In producing the "Ultimate Laphroaig" they did some minor things different and they have a look at those for producing (or emitting) the "iodine" thing. They list the following

1. Whisky was produced for short period - two weeks in august. High temeperature for the fermentation. Dry peat at the end of summer.
2. They didn't use their big spirit still (Laphroaig have two sizes of similar spirit stills...)
3. They charges their wash still with slightly less wash than normal

Anyway nobody knows. But the molecules responsible for the iodine character was not produced. Taste is shape-triggered so It must be a special compund triggering the same nerves as Iodine does. It doesn't have to be iodine. It could be interesting if anyone have been making a chemical analysis of Laphroaig to see if any iodine is present...

Steffen

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Ah, you're probably wright. Sorry. I thought peat was the fuel used in all scottish destilleries, but I must have been misinformed. Does anyone in this NG have more information about this? Is wood used on the mainland or in certain districts? Pine?

Still: Bruichladdich on Islay both produce a whisky with as low as 2-5 ppm phenol, and the Octomore wich is said to contain as much as 80 ppm. I believe they use peat as fuel in both, so it's not just a matter of wether peat is used, but how it is used, I guess.

(And cannot charring of the casks be another source for smoky elements?)

Gunnar

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Interesting info! Well, there is so many possible sources for different scent and taste elements to enter in the prosess. The water, both used before and after the destillation, to mention but one.

Gunnar

Here are two sites with at least some info:

Gunnar

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But in some other

Well, according to Bruichladdich, cole smoke does not stick to the grains, whereas phenols do.

Gunnar

Hmmm, and there you have yet another mystery. I can taste it for sure... Must be some other component, so. Intriguing stuff, this whisky! Marjon

Pip Hills writes in "Appreciating Whisky" (which is a fascinating book) that by the mid-nineteenth century, coke was used to dry the malt in Highland distilleries. Coke is coal with the volatile organics driven off. Since coke produces little smoke in a furnace, it became possible to make the malt with little or no aroma of peat. Peat was added to the fire as required to give the desired phenol level in the malt, and this is the technique used today in distilleries that have floor maltings (Highland Park, Bowmore, Laphroaig, Springbank, and others). But most distilleries buy their malt from commercial producers today and specify the level of phenols in parts per million. A typical Speyside has 1 to 2 ppm, Lagavulin around 30 ppm, Ardbeg up to 50 ppm.

Highland Park is interesting. They dry their own peated malt at about

Regarding phenols from casks, Mr. Hills claims that while a few phenols do migrate from the cask to the whisky, the determining factor is the peat smoke exposure during the drying of the malt.

-- regards, Fred

"Verbing weirds language." -- Calvin

So, would you say Ardbeg 10 has a strong iodine smell/taste to it?

Thank you for good info! I will have to get that book.

Merry christmas to you all!

Gunnar

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No, not at all. It's more like old sail ships and peat and heather imho Anders

Actually I don't find Laphroaig very "iodine"

But I did when I started drinking whisky

I think it's my perception or the way I interpret the whisky that have changed, not the whisky

Right now I am sitting with a sample of both Laphroaig 10 and Ardbeg 10.

I don't find any iodine in neither

My personal theory

Iodine is the association you get from nosing/tasting some phenols in smoked whisky or some of the smoked whisky. But when you get acquainted with smoked whisky the scent you now start to associate it with is .... smoked whisky. I believe that my body has got some experience, actually my experience with smoked whisky is now 100 fold more than any experience I had with any kind of desinfection in my whole life. So that's why I can't pick up Iodine - there's no Iodine there...

Only a theory ! I would really liked it backed up by someone handing me a chemical analysis saying there's no Iodine in Laphroaig.

But that was the initial question of this thread... :-)

Else I get that :

Laphroaig is sweeter and have a more heavy spirit

Ardbeg is actually very light and "dry" compared to Laphroaig

Rubbing my hands in the laphroaig and letting the ethanol evaporate gives me a real haevy ashtray smokiness similar to what i pick up when someone serves me smoked barley malt (usual at a distillery)

Over the years I must have have become kinda immune to the smokiness ("iodine" as well ?) or used to it. I don't get my head blown off as I did the first time I had a laphroiag (And I thought it was the worst whisky I ever had - Boy was I wrong)

Steffen

I feel I have had the exact same experience with Laphroaig. I was just lamenting the loss of that iodine blast that I remember the first time I had a Laphroaig. But today I opened a bottle of Arbeg Very Young and it brought me back. Thank you Santa Claus!