China is one of the World's top wine producers

They tippled production between '98 and '99. That's interesting. I wonder if it's a variance in reporting of actual production. Maybe they're gearing up to export.

I wonder what their wine is like? I want to guess it's white and slightly sweet, but who knows?

The chart itself is quite interesting. I'd have not guessed that Italy produces two and a half times the wine of the US.

On a different but related topic, I remember reading recently in a small town newspaper that Kansas and Missouri produced 80 or 90% of US wine in the 1800's. Can that be right? I'll post the article if I can find it again.

Here comes Wally Worlds' gallon jug specials of Chinese wine. Goes with the gallon jugs of dill pickles they use to undercut everyone else. Ops! I forget I live in a rural county where the righeous ones only allow the sale of beer and 5% soda pop wine. JC only made Welch's grape juice according to their Bibles. Another reason to drive to the next county where there are liquor stores. And they call it a "free country".

Was it South Corp or Gallo that outsourced to China? I guess now that Cadillac is going to be made in China, Gallo should be too.

They do make red too. My sister brought back a red from China a couple of years ago. I had not yet started practicing the art of tasting wine much less trying to describe it. So I have little to offer other than it was a red. I can only remember that, as one is required to say when offered home-made wine, "Hey. That's not too bad!"

We have training personnel traveling to China regularly so I shall try to get some more. Then to translate the label... Hmm. Art Schubert Traverse City, Michigan

I must say I like the quite appropriate idea of tippling production :-)

Jim.

The owner of the small, Napa Valley-based oak barrel company I work for was invited to speak at a wine conference in China about three or four years ago.

Later, he and an entourage of foreigners were taken on tours of Chinese wineries.

Most are situated in the south-eastern part of China, which climatically is rather warm and humid (more akin to South Carolina than the Mediterranean climes of most of the world's great wines).

Nevertheless, there are thousands of hectares of carefully-tended vines growing there. The investment in technology and the hugeness of the facilities is startling.

China will surely become a major wine exporter one day, but the climate they've chosen for this first generation of wines is unlikely to produce the kinds of wines the classic wine market is accustomed to.

I imagine as a first step, China will be exporting to south Asia, which has over a billion people and a growing middle class, many of them eager to learn about wine.

Business elites in Singapore and the former Hong Kong colony have already created one of the biggest markets for top-growth, "trophy" Bordeaux, Champagne and Burgundies.

If you want to know why some grand cru Bordeaux cost hundreds of dollars, it's because of insatiable demand from wealthy collectors in Asia.

This interest in wine is filtering down to the mid-level people in westernized Asian economies.

Unfortunately, Western producers of vin ordinaire jug wines, like Chile, Spain, Australia and California have already priced themselves out of the entry-level markets in Asia.

What's needed are wines costing far below 50 cents (US) per liter, because the south Asian middle class is earning much lower salaries than elsewhere in the world.

I suspect these Chinese bulk wines will be largely made from hybrid grapes which are more suitable to their climate, and they will be vinified with some residual sugar. Also, it's natural and expected that new wine styles be created to match the local cuisines.

Nevertheless, some of the early releases from these Chinese producers attempt to mimic the classic cabernet/chardonnay paradigm; and that's not a surprise, either---better to put your best foot forward, when the world is watching you!

However---if China is ever to become a serious competitor against the West, they will have to locate some vineyards in some of the more arid interior regions.

Perhaps they are already doing so; I apologize that I went forth on this discussion without reading the article.

I think of Mexico. Mexico is a tropical country; when the Spaniards first colonized it, they naturally planted their grapes to make wine. Mexico has high enough altitudes and winter frosts, even in the tropics, to trigger dormancy, which vines need.

But unfortunately, central Mexico's climate is the *reverse* of California and the Mediterranean's: the rainy season is during the summer (growing) season, instead of the winter (dormant) season, as in Spain and Europe.

The tender grapes would be trounced by summer rains, and, without modern fungicides, rot.

Decent wines, it was discovered after centuries of failure, can only be made in Mexico in the areas of perpetual aridity, such as Aguascalientes and Chihuahua, or in the west coastal regions, like Baja California.

We cannot afford to underestimate China---but, unless you're the export director of, say, a major Western winery making jug wines, I'd say that Chinese competition in the near future will not threaten your domestic markets.

---Bob

And you should see data about the consumption :)

Vilco

I tasted 3 Chinese wines in the past. I didn't like them.... (I know, 3 is not so relevant.....) The 2 whites were not so bad, but they were a little too old when I tasted them The red was not good at all.

If you want to see the labels :

Regards,

Robert

The article is wrong. In the 1800s, the midwest had nowhere near 80-90% of wine production in the US.

Up to 1850, the Ohio River area and New York were dominant. 1850-1880, Great Lakes, Missouri and New York. After about 1885, California was tops and remains today. After Repeal of Prohibition, New York had a few decades of grandeur, in wine volume, as a small sister to California, but it all faded by

However, one of the top three wine corporations in the US today is Canandaigua, which was a crummy cheap-quality, bulk New York wine house a decade ago. Their first acquisition was Taylor, a winery of some pride in quality, of the Finger Lakes. They kept muddling around in mediocre New York bulk wine, until they decided to invest in California. Now they own half the state, and some serious wineries in Napa-Sonoma, and are a serious challenge to Gallo for pre-eminence in hugeness. Not bad for a former provincial, New York producer of plonk! I shouldn't say that, because some of their constituent California wineries are some of my best barrel customers. OK, let's call it smart management---Google an article from about 3 years ago from Forbes magazine, if you're interested in this amazing, basement to penthouse wine saga.

I can't speak for Kansas, but Missouri WAS a "wine country" region of note in the late 1800s.

And, if you were today to saw off the west coast of the US and let it float out to sea, Missouri might still be relevant, winewise.

It may have had something to do with Mississippi River traffic, but the area around Springfield, Mo., in the 1870s and 1880s had a flurry of winegrowing activity.

German immigrants to the area planted vines. German and Swiss winegrowers also established vinicultural communities along the Ohio River, near Cincinnatti, and also near Vevay, Indiana.

The failure of classic European grapes in Eastern America (which we now know was due to phylloxera)--- which Thomas Jefferson, among others, had tried to propagate--- had led by the 1830s to the discovery of some native American varieties of grape which were disease-resistant.

The first native American "fox" grape cultivar for wine was the Catawba, "domesticated" by Nicholas Longworth in Ohio in the 1820s.

Henry Wadsworth Longfellow, in a famous poem, waxing about Ohio wine country in the 1830s, described Catawba as "dulcet and dreamy".

Catawba comes from the vitis labrusca native American species, but may have been crossed by Longworth with a vinifera grape, because it lacks that totally "wild" character.

Longworth was a politician as well as a grape-grower, and his family became a dynasty in American politics, right up to the time of Teddy Roosevelt. Teddy's daughter Alice married an important congressional Longworth, Nicholas' grandson, I think.

Catawba wines are still produced in several wine districts of the American northeast.

Catawba, at its best, doesn't compare to classic European vinifera, but it makes a decent rose-esque quaffing wine, not overtly "foxy", and an even better sparkler.

At the time, it was the best they had for whites in the early 19th century.

For reds, there was "Norton", an odd, totally non-foxy but nevertheless totally weird American native, in Latin, vitis cynthiana. The grape is native to creeksides in Virginia.

The juice of Norton is blood-red, unlike most European red grapes, which have clear juice.

Freshly fermented Norton red wines have a totally bizarre tannin structure, which I can only describe as a "twang", without the chewiness of young tannins one might expect from wines made of European grapes.

But put young Norton in a barrel for a couple of years, bottle it, and then bottle-age it for another ten years---and presto (presto??)---you have a marvellous, indescribably nuanced, wine which cries out for a great cigar.

Norton is an American original. There's nothing in the world like it.

I had a venison dinner a few years ago, at the home of Jennie McCloud, the proprietor of Chrysalis Vineyards, in Virginia.

Chrysalis, and Horton Vineyards are two Virginia wineries which imported vine-stock of this Norton vine, back into their state, from Stone Hill Winery in Missouri. Apparently, the grape, a native of Virginia, had become extinct there by the early 20th century, and was only grown commercially in Missouri.

Both Virginia wineries have decided to "bet the farm" on Norton, and they are mavericks in the manner of the early Zinfandel fanatics in California.

The venison was caught as an interloper in Jennie's vineyard, and wound up on our dinner table of eight guests. The venison and accoutrements were fabulous.

It was served up with paired wines, a 1982 Ch. Mouton-Rothschild and 1982 Ch. Lafite-Rothschild. It was, needless to say, a memorable evening!

Two-thirds of the way through, I had the temerity, after tasting two of the best wines of my life, to call Jennie's bluff about her committment to Norton. Perhaps she expected me to say this "cue", or maybe not.

But off we went to the cellar, for an early 1980s vintage of Stone Hill Norton, from Missouri.

The Lafite and the Mouton were still in everyone's glasses. A third glass was poured, of this well-aged Norton.

There was a gasp in the dining room. The Norton was obviously different, but it had many of the qualities of a classic Bordeaux.

There were incredibly deep, cedary aromas, and the mouthfeel was complete, bursting with explosions of mature fruit flavors, and a surprisingly fine texture. It was like tasting a great old Louis Martini or Ridge California Zinfandel against a great Bordeaux.

So, for those who think California is the ONLY source of great wines from America, note that other regions and other grapes are capable of greatness.

Norton may one day become the East's answer to Zinfandel, which is California's answer to Europe.

It's also a gateway to the re-discovery of some forgotten, unrecognized, high-quality wine regions in America.

If your impression of Eastern wines is foxy, sweet Concord and labrusca or sloppy, indifferent hybrids, think again.

Those wine types, sadly, still predominate, because they are cash-cows for the wineries on the tourist circuit. They are cheap to make, but the profits help subsidize the very rare and costly-to-produce "serious" wines.

The whole East Coast has been undergoing a viticultural revolution in the last

Ice-wine from the Great Lakes (Michigan and Ohio), and the Finger Lakes (New York) can be great, even if made from hybrid grapes, like Vidal.

Chardonnay from the Finger Lakes and Long Island (NY) is some of the best in the US.

The best riesling in America comes from the northeast US and Canada. Some of the best, most floral viognier can come from Virginia.

The best gewurztraminer I ever had in my life (including Alsace) came from tiny Red Newt Cellars in the Finger Lakes, NY.

The reds from the northeast can be wonderful after a drought year, like 2002, but in general they lack depth in other years. Cabernet Franc and Merlot from Long Island and Virginia can be very worthwhile, and worth seeking out, if not world-class (and some of my Long Island and Virginia friends will crucify me after this!).

So, what's to keep a weirdo varietal like Norton, from Missouri and Virginia, from becoming the next Zinfandel?

Norton, unfortunately, needs time to develop. It's almost undrinkable when young. Maybe new viticultural practices will tame that wild "tang" of tannin.

But in the meantime, wineries which focus on Norton will have to wait another couple of extra years to release the wine.

In the wine business, that's costly. Plus, the wine world has become accustomed to drinking red wines when they are less than five years old.

But if we can respect, for Norton at least, the old adage of cellaring a wine until it comes into its potential, then patience will be rewarded.

As a postscript: Stone Hill remains one of Missouri's best-known wineries.

But before World War II, there was a very famous brand of "champagne" which came from Missouri. The brand name was as least as famous as Taylor (in New York), for anyone living east of the Mississippi, for an entire generation of GI families.

It was "Cook's Imperial", and you may (unfortunately) find that brand today in the bargain bins of chamat-bulk-produced champagnes, because the brand has since been sold to a big California concern, and its reputation totally depreciated, in the way of Inglenook.

But in its heyday, Cook's was the best American champagne on the market (in modern terms, that may not be saying a lot). There were wine caves in the bluffs over the river. And the Heck family---descendants of the early German winegrowers in Springfield, Missouri, were celebrities, like the Mondavis today, but a generation before, when the Mondavis were still stuck in Lodi.

In the mid-1940s, the Heck family---descendants of the early German winegrowers to Springfield, Missouri---sold out the Cook brand, and moved to California.

The Hecks took over the old, 19-century Korbel facility in Guerneville, in the Russian River region of Sonoma County, and specialized in 'champagne', of course. Korbel 'Natural' was the only serious champagne in America until Schramsberg came along in 1971. Today the Hecks have prospered with some very popular and well-made, if not stellar, sparklers and brandies.

The tradition of Missouri winemaking survives in America!

But, Kansas? I don't think so!

--Bob

"RobertsonChai" skrev i melding news: snipped-for-privacy@mb-m02.aol.com...

Wonderful piece of information on US wine possibilities for an European! Thanks Anders