Does Champagne go bad?

Sorry, no. "Fermented in this bottle" describes methode champenoise/traditionelle, while "fermented in the bottle" describes what is usually called "transvasement method". Austria's second largest (and quote reputable) producer of sparkling wine, Johann Kattus, works along this line. It starts like methode traditionelle with second fermentation and ageing on the lees, but there is no riddling and disgorgement. Instead the content of the bottles is transferred into pressure tanks, filtered, and bottled into (new, btw) bottles.

M.

"Pétillant" - as "frizzante" - designs a sparkling wine with discernably less CO2 pressure. Full sparklers would be "mousseux" or "spumante".

M.

Salut/Hi Clyde,

le/on Tue, 28 Oct 2003 17:58:52 -0600, tu disais/you said:-

shouldn't be

Thanks.

Probably to avoid making a rod for their own back later.

I think so, yes. There's another "Cuvée sur Lie" which has become the private preserve of the Muscadet growers. Whenever I meet one, I tell him clrealy what I think of it. If you can protect "cuvée sur lie" you would be able to protect "Bottle fermented", it seems to me. A bad decision, typical of protectionism.

Grin!

As Dana said, someone could use very large bottles and then decant and legally call it "bottle fermented". If you want to use french expressions (which I'm not very much in favour on a CA bottle of wine for the same sort of reasons I'm against the use of french wine names) on the label, then the expression "Methode Traditionnelle" is the one that is used throughout France.

Well, all wines with bubbles can be called that. Remember that there are three ways of introducing CO2 into wine. Pumping it in. Fermenting in vats (I'm tempted to say that I see little difference between that and using large bottles), followed by filling the bottles under pressure, and fermenting in the bottles in which the wine is sold with the concommitant operations of disgorging and dosing. I think it's reasonable to want to specify that you're bottle fermenting.

Well, I'd strongly suggest a powerful brand name, "Dom Pérignon" doesn't really NEED to say anything other than that. I would lean towards the english language expression "Tradionally bottle fermented" (if it's legal).

One could argue that this is an unhappy conflation. I _could_ interpret that to mean that the term champagne may appear in lieu of the class designation "sparkling wine" in the case of champagne, while the other expressions could appear in the place of "sparkling wine" in the case of crackling wines.

Pétillant is a nice word, but in France it is often used to describe wines slightly LESS fizzy than champagne and others of the same type. France uses the word "Crémant" as in "Crémant de Bourgogne" "Crémant d'Alsace" and so on, for wines made by the Methode champenoise.

God knows.... fireworks?

Thanks Michael,

That's very useful information and new to my vocabulary. I assume that the terms are French and Italian respectively!?

clyde

We pride ourselves in how we help educate our customers. What I've found that is most important is to not treat everyone the same. Some people will want to know the difference, others don't care to hear it.

Visiting our winery affords the opportunity to speak with either the viticulturist or the enologist, which is relatively rare for this area. What I say on the usenet is usually a world away from what I'd say to the customer. Here is where I air my concerns and vent my frustrations so it doesn't end up happening in the salesroom!

Think of me as your customer.

Sounds like this is or was your field. May I ask what your experience is with customers?

clyde

Clyde, what is your winery? Where is it?

You're welcome.

Exactly.

M.

South Central Missouri, USofA

clyde

Sure. I was attempting to give examples of what someone unfamiliar with the term might think, not examples of what the actual alternatives are. Sorry about that.

Dana

The crackling sound of the carbonation bubbles as they break at the surface of the wine. The term seems a bit arcane, but I vaguely recall something called "Crackling Rose" on a label once...

Dana

Not sure about a wine label, but it was on a record label - Neil Diamond "Crackling Rose". Dick

Yup. There's almost nothing worse than having a canned speech you give to everyone regardless of interest. They do that at Disneyland. Offer a little more politely and see who wants it. Another poor practice I've seen is when someone in hospitality is on a mission, like one guy I once saw lecture several customers about spitting ("you can taste wine all day if you discretely spit"). He was right, but it wasn't what the customers wanted or needed to hear. Sometimes customers *want* to know the etiquette of spitting - finding out which is which is the fun.

Heh. I've read some pretty harrowing things here. Like the story about Merlawtinger at Sequoia Grove...

Primarily corporate. By day, I'm usually a senior engineer with a great deal of customer contact. I've poured wine a few times, too.

Dana

"Michael Pronay" a écrit dans le message de

Hello Michael,

Yes, as often, you are right, since 1994.

Sinon, je ne dis rien pour le reste, tout a déjà été dit concernant l'utilisation erronnée et des termes Champagne, Chablis, Bourgogne, Porto, Tokay, Cognac, ... and more.. tout ces breuvages qui mouillent les papilles, contiennent un peu ou plus d'alcool... et surtout se vendent comme des.

All the best, Amitiés vineuses et pétillantes,

Francis

Ian, don't forget the transvasement method (described in another posting of mine). It does not seem to have much following, but, as I have said, one major (and highly regarded) company here in Austria, Johann Kattus, does it this way:

M.

Actually, I tend to believe most consumers (not the savvy consumers that won't be fooled in any case like us) blame producers far more than regions. If, in the consumer's mind, "champagne == all sparkling wine", then it will do no harm to the reputation of Champagne.

Dana

Wow, did not realize we have a wine of the Ozarks.

Thanks for informing me. I live in North Carolina and we also as you know have some wineries here. Some are actually making some drinkable products now. Takes a while.

dick