French wines for beginners

On the whole, I find Cannes a dreary and rather exploited place - the only thing I really like to visit there is the Market Hall, except on Mondays when they have flea market. Besides, they have more interesting produce in the Antibes market place.

RAther, go for Nice. I´ll gladly second Mike´s suggestions there - word of advice, BTW, stick to the traditional courses in Vin sur Vin, they are excellent while some of the more 'creative' things have been a little ... too creative. I especially remember a veal cassoulet with 'french fries' and a bottle of ... can´t remember, young red from Languedoc, excellent.

I rather like 'L´Âne Rouge', for an expensive lunch. Definitely _not_ creative and most likely will never get more stars than the one they have, but, still, I like it.

BTW, when in Tain, you could of course visit Chapoutier´s tasting room - a bit on the expensive side, but not bad. Also, there is of course (off topic) the Valrhona choclate tasting room, if you like chocolate ... in Tain there is a one-star restaurant, Rive Gauche, which I´d suggest you avoid, because it´s a dull, stuffed-shirt place with oodles of pretension ... just my opinion of course ...

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

"cherie" in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com...

Why did you gravitate first toward California wines, I am interested.

It's a serious question, much more so than may be obvious. (I follow what shapes people's wine educations and have been interested in comments like cherie's, above, for three decades. I'm from California but not in the wine industry.)

(Email if you prefer, note instructions within my address in the header.)

Max Hauser

Sorry if I'am repeating (I have not read all the answers)

But I would try a good Cahors (Chateau Lamartine, Chateau Lagrezette)

GG

Mike Tommasi wrote:

I don't know how much opportunity you'll have to visit individual wineries on the cruise, but you'll be passing through Chardonnay country in the Macon, so you should definitely try some examples. One of the more famous names (not necessarily the best) in that region is Pouilly-Fuissé; also, the "Les Charmes" vineyard in Macon-Lugny produces decent wines. I am not familiar enough to give you the names of specific producers, but surely others can. The Chardonnays of Burgundy, especially the less expensive ones, are quite different from the California versions. The 2002s should be released and should be relatively high in quality. You should see what you think. You'll also find some Chardonnay produced in the Ardeche.

By the time you get to Vienne, however, you enter the land of Syrah and less famous white wines. Nils's advice to try Graillot's Crozes and Chapuoutier's wines is spot on. Mike T. also has very good advice. If you have the opportunity (and the $$$) you should try a 2002 Condrieu from Cuilleron or Gangloff and/or a 1999 Cote Rotie from Ogier, Gaillard, Gangloff or Jamet. The vintages of 2000-2001 were much less sucessful in the Northern Rhone, and the areas of Hermitage and Cornas are simply not ready to drink until they're 8-10 years old.

Mike T. and Nils offer great advice here. The 2001 Cote du Rhones are a great introduction to the wines of the Southern Rhone. The more pricey wines of the region (Chateauneuf-du-Pape, Gigondas) are also great in

Have great fun, cherie. You are about to venture in to the heartland of fine wine. You may find that this trip forever changes your taste in wine...

Mark Lipton

Super stuff.

Also in Cotes du Rhone, try Domaine Rouge Garance, and for something far out, try Domaine Viret, they practice something called cosmoculture... (theme from the Twilight Zone playing)...

Hey, drop a line, maybe we can meet when you hit the coast, I'm near Bandol, I can take you to visit some upcoming unknowns...

Mike

Max:

That's a wonderful question. When I first started drinking and appreciating red wine, say 10-15 years ago, I found that every time I tried anything that was not a California Merlot or Cabernet, it was just too thin for me. I generally only liked the richer, bigger, bolder red wines that were also smooth with a hint of fruitiness. I have branched out a little in the past few years, and have found that I love Amerone, and I like many varieties of Shiraz, Syrah, and can appreciate Zinfandel (although many are a little too sweet for me). I've never been much for Chianti--the few I've tried were too thin. French wine was just one type I never tried much, I really can't say why. I think I tasted some French red wine when I was 16 and hated it, though I think at that age I would have hated any red wine. I did try a French merlot (Soleil?) a few months ago but found it totally unpleasing--too rustic. My favorite sparkling wines/champagnes, however, are the French ones. As far as white wine goes, when I was young and knew nothing about wine, I drank mostly sweeter Reislings, and occasionally I drank white zinfandel. As I grew slightly older, I gave up the white zin completely and just drank Reislings, and branched out to some that were more dry. Now and for the past several years, I really only drink Chardonnay when it comes to white. No other reason than I just can't seem to appreciate Pinot Gris or Sauvignon Blanc, they just don't do it for me. And why I always gravitate to California Chardonnays, I don't know--ignorance, habit? I'm not even sure what other Chardonnays exist. So again, I think one reason that I have gravitated toward California wines in general may just be my exposure level--I have tried more of them throughout the years, and I also toured Northern California wine country about 7 years ago which increased my interest as well.

Nils--

Thanks for the advice. And we LOVE chocolate, so I will gladly add the Valrhona tasting room to my list. I'm disappointed to hear that both you and Mike are not fans of Cannes. Since we are going to end our cruise in Arles, my travel agent suggested we drive to Cannes and spend a few days at the Hotel Martinez, relaxing on the beach. Their website is certainly enticing enough, if nothing else! On another subject, I recently came across some previous postings where you wrote of the Zenato Ripasso. Last night my husband and I spotted it on the wines-by-the-glass menu at the restaurant we were dining at. We each had a glass, and really enjoyed it. So smooth, really a lovely wine, much like an Amerone. So thanks once again for the tip.

-Cherie

Let me add that, other than during Cannes film festival week, the average age there is higher than the average august daytime temperature in degrees Fahrenheit. Nothing against the older crowd, I am no spring chicken myself, and I will not speak for that kid Nils, but no matter whether you are in your 20's or your 70's, you might prefer a more hopping place...

Mike

Thank you, Mark. I have a feeling you are right. In fact, I think that simply being privy to this newsgroup may forever change, or at least, greatly diversify, my taste in wine.

Thanks, Mike, what a nice offer. I believe we will be renting a car in Arles and driving to Cannes around the 10th of July or so. We'll keep in touch.

-Cherie

"Mike Tommasi" skrev i meddelandet news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

Yes Mike, please do!

Cheers

... Did I fool you? ... Ah. It´s the nose, right? Always gives me away, the nose ...

-- Respond to nils dot lindgren at drchips dot se

"cherie" skrev i meddelandet news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com...

Great cow, with all the lovely Riesling about!!! Riesling, the most underevaluated varietal (white) in the world! ALl the goody-goodies from Rheingau, Mosel, Alsace, even Alto Adige!

You´re joking, right? p-p-p-p-leeeze tell me you´re joking!!!!!

Cheers Nils Gustaf

snipped-for-privacy@morganrothlaw.com (cherie) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:

I would add that my experience with Cannes was nice enough and the Martinez is a destination in itself, but I liked Villefranche sur mer better even though there is not even a pretention to a beach there, but then Cannes only thinks it has one :-)

"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" in news:pjuZb.49722$ snipped-for-privacy@newsb.telia.net...

I can think of one or two ambassadors from Germany who would warm to those comments, several producers, and many wine enthusiasts worldwide besides. "The most undervalued" white varietal in the world is the idiom variation here in the US, among those who know about Riesling. ("Underevaluated" is very similar in feel to "undervalued," as words go; more international, leans toward British English.) Having "got it" about Riesling, I am torn between singing its praises and asking you discreetly to quiet down before too many people hear.

Fear not, this is very usual in the US. Many people outside US criticize California Chardonnays because (most of them) smell or taste not like Chardonnay but stylistically narrow and of course over-oaked. Look, said a woman from Scotland to me recently (she will probably read this) -- It's the wrong color! (She was comparing a typical California Chardonnay to one, I think, from South Africa in a less over-oaked and more individual style, and less gratuitously yellow.) But the US is, demonstrably and measurably, a culture fairly new to wine; after all they drank nothing, legally, as recently as 1933, and as of 1940 some two-thirds of the wine consumed was fortified (Source: Schoonmaker and Marvel, _American Wines,_ 1941). Chardonnay gets them trying things, and within a few hundred years or less they surely will transcend it. Those of you in the old world should know patience.

Max

Oh, that's all. No problem! :-)

(45724 declared Burgundy proprietors alone, in Yoxall's admittedly dated count, but still a lot for a brief cruise).

"Mike Tommasi" in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com... narrows the selection slightly:

A good representative. By coincidence the "other" Esmonins are here in the San Francisco area (or will be shortly, guests of a US Burgundy importer who is doing a wine dinner with them.)

-- Max

-------- "Goûtons voir si le vin est bon ..."

You're joking not mentionig Austria?! p-p-p-p-leeeze tell me you're joking!

M.

Oh, well then, I guess I have the right to be overwhelmed! It is a lot, isn't it. Lucky me. :)

-Cherie

Oh Nils, I had a feeling I might be giving a few of you gentlemen heart attacks with my comments. Sigh. I decided being genuinely honest was only fair in light of Max's genuinely honest question. I don't know why I've strayed from Reislings in recent years, I'm going to have to get back into that exploration. But I still don't like the Pinot Gris/Pinot Griglio/Savignon Blancs, from what I can tell. (defiantly sticking out tongue) And I'm not joking about Chardonnay...I love Chardonnay but I am totally Americanized. Actually, I think I was poured a glass of French? Chardonnay not to long ago at a restaurant, and it thoroughly confused me. (laughing now)--You must really be beginning to hate me. I'm sorry (serious now), if I am offending you by not being up to the standards of this group, I will gracefully bow out of the group and simply observe. Really. :)

-Cherie

Max, I thinks that sounds right on the mark. What do you suppose would be a good Chardonnay (not from California) for me to attempt to diversify a little? To give you an idea of a couple of basic California Chardonnays that I enjoy--I would probably say Sterling and Edna Valley. Kendall Jackson's not bad either, especially for the under $10 price.

-Cherie