South of France Wine Areas

"dick" wrote in news:5O2_b.14428$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net:

At the risk of repeating myself, Gigondas, eat lunch at Les Florets just north of the town proper. There are many producers who have degustation, that is the word to watch for on signs. This is an area where potluck can throw up some nice surprises.

Thanks. Sorry for this question...is Gigondas wines similar to C De Pape...just on of same village?

What is difference in D De Pape and Gigandas?

Serious question...I know my Burgs and Bordeaux but not much on Rhone.

Dick, Both are typically Grenache-based wines, but there are some stylistic differences (though with the growth of "modern"-styled CdP and Gigondas, that's not a universal statement). CdP (barring Beaucastel, which is a style unto itself) is fairly tannic in its youth, with exuberant cherryish fruit, pepper and herbal (or meaty) character. Gigondas tends to be a bit more rustic, emphasizing the herbal/meaty character, but also less long-lived. Where most of my '90 CdPs are going strong, most of my '90 Gigondas is at the end of its lifetime. Regarding your original question, you should definitely spend a day or two visiting Bandol (just W of Nice). Places to visit there are Dom. St. Anne, Dom. du Gros Noré and perhaps Tempier. I'd also recommend a small detour W of the Rhone to the Herault and Pic St. Loup. Some places to visit there are Grange de Peres, St. Martin de la Garrigue, Ch. La Roque and Mas Clavel. The local coops are not too bad, either.

Mark Lipton

"dick" wrote in news:8A4_b.15786$hm4.8214 @newsread3.news.atl.earthlink.net:

As Mark said similar though Gigondas is primarily Grenache and Syrah (IIRC) with a dose of Mourvedre with the neighboring Vacqueyras, as indicated in recent thread, a bit less Grenache.

Mark posted the following on 1-29:

Here are my notes from a recent tasting put on by JC Mathes of J et R Selections

a smallish importer who specializes in wines from small domaines in the Rhône Valley, with a few domaines from elsewhere in France. All told, they import 140 different domaines, and IMO generally bring in wines of character and value. Last night's wines: ,other material snipped>

1999 La Tourade Vacqueyras nose: gamey , cherries, smoke palate: acidic on entry, giving way to cherry fruit and medium body, giving way to gaminess in the finish. Now this is more like it (at ~$15)! Made from 80/10/10 Grenache/Syrah/Mourvedre (as are all their Gigondas cuveés), it has that funkiness that I associate with Vacqueyras (guaranteed to turn Jean off in a heartbeat). Quite a nice value. 2000 La Tourade Vacqueyras nose: gamey, cherries palate: softer on entry than the '99, rich fruit in the midpalate before an acidic finish. Softer and simpler than the '99, but still a decent wine. Between the two, however, I preferred the '99. 1999 La Tourade Gigondas nose: slightly floral, with minerals, cherry and smoke palate: acidic entry, cherry, gaminess, with mild tannins and acid in the finish This cuvée was made from younger vines, but still has substance and character. Quite typical of Gigondas (IMO) and a decent bargain at $18. 2000 La Tourade Gigondas nose: cherry and minerals palate: acidic, slightly thinner and less appealing than the '99, but similar in character 1998 La Tourade Gigondas Cuvée Font des Aieux nose: deep cherry fruit palate: pencil lead, tannins in the midpalate, modestly fruity Similar in many ways to a decent CdP, this wine didn't have quite enough fruit to go with the still substantial tannins. 2000 La Tourade Gigondas Cuvée Font des Aieux nose: some heat, and oak(??) with deep cherry fruit palate: rich mouthfeel, lots of cherryish fruit and a tannic finish This was the biggest of the Gigondas stable, but also more expensive (~$24). This one might develop into something very interesting in a few years, though. 2000 La Tourade Gigondas Cuvée Morgan nose: licorice and volatile esters palate: licorice, cedar, red fruit and an oaky finish This, according to JC, is the domaine's bow to American taste: Gigondas aged in new barriques. JC only imports it because his customers love it (he doesn't). I'm with JC: this is closer to Zin or Aussie Shiraz than Gigondas.

Of all the Gigondas tasted from this producer, the '99 regular cuvée and the 2000 Font des Aieux stood out. It would have been fun to try the '99 Font des Aieux as I generally preferred the wines from that year, but it wasn't available.

1999 Grand Tinel Chateauneuf du Pape nose: leather, tobacco and some fruit underneath palate: rich mouthfeel, cherry fruit, before a clean finish A very nice CdP selling for a Gigondas price (~$25). After the earlier wines, this came across as big and rich. Yum! 1999 Bois de Boursan Chateauneuf du Pape nose: gamey, leather and seaweed palate: slightly alcholic on entry, giving way to deep cherry fruit and an acidic finish Yes, this is the same wine I tasted last week! (5 wines from J et R at the last tasting) If you go back and read my notes from that tasting, you'll see why I'm not a professional wine reviewer. ;-) Good stuff, though (~$30). 2001 Domaine du Pégaü Chateauneuf du Pape nose: slightly corked (dammit! it was the last bottle, too), flowers and fruit beneath palate: big wine, lots of cherry and berryish fruit, tannic and tarry before a 60 second finish. WOW! I can only imagine what this wine would have been like if it hadn't been corked, but still impressive. I missed out on the 2000 Pégaü, but as I had it at last year's J et R tasting, I wasn't too torn up. People who had both were largely more favorable about the 2000, but it could simply be that it was a year softer (actually, the 2000 is probably bigger IIRC). The only thing not to like is the price ($48), but that's the price of success...

Overall, a great tasting put on by a great guy (JC). The wines were generally of quite high quality, with lots of personality and very reasonably priced wines. As they are now distributed in over a dozen states in the US (see the website for names) these are wines worth looking for.

Mark Lipton

thanks.

Yeah, guess I shouldn't have pissed Ian off months ago...he would have been a great resource for this trip.

Was using www. mappy.com to check out distance between cities. From Avignon to Beaune there were 4 beaunes that we in different areas. 100 Miles difference. Is Beanue a County, City, ...

I plan to take train from Barcelona to France...where in France I am not yet positive. Most Americans I understand go to Perpignan to pick up car to avoid huge drop charges. I was thinking go to Dijon/Beaune and drive back to Avigon and then Nice.

I really love Burgs, have not developed much appreciation for Rhone other than Hermitage. CDP's are OK to me. But perhaps after staying in the region my tastes will devolop.

"dick" skrev i en meddelelse news:5O2_b.14428$ snipped-for-privacy@newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net...

In Gigondas I recommend a visit to Domaine Raspail-Ay. Very good wine at reasonable price (10 euro)

In Vacqueyras, try Domaine La Garrique. They make excellent and powerfull wines with good potential for ageing. Read more at

In Cdp, I have visited Clos de Papes, they sell at around 20 euro a very good CdP.

Anders

Good suggestions. In CdP, I'd add Font de Michelle (good pricing), Domaine du Pegau (a personal favorite) and (though I've never been there) I'd try to get in to Clos du Caillou -- they're doing some great things these days. Ch. Beaucastel is also worth a visit if you want to see the closest thing to a CA tasting room to be found in those parts...

Mark Lipton

Thanks for advice. I had found these on a web site-

I am a bit nervous about accommodations. My Bro-In-Law used to be a yacht captain and suggested just book your arrival and departure cities for lodging...then stay at B&B's in route. (no reservations needed) If you want to explore longer in some locations it won't matter.

So all I am going to do is book a nice place in Barcelona for the first 3-4 nights, then for the last 2-3 in Nice or Monaco....and the 8 nights nights or so in between we will try to stay near Avignon, Aix in Provance, and others along the way...I will book train to go from Barcelona to France...and have car reservations made, and some winery appointments.

I am quite a planner and this will be stressful. I can just imagine a big convention in town and everything is booked for 100 miles. There I am in France, no where to stay. That would suck. At least I will eat and drink well.

Dick

near Avignon B&B and some meals stay at La Marteliere, tell them I sent you and they'll charge you double ;-)))

Good place, calm, country, close to everything (Fontaine de Vaucluse, Chateauneuf, Avignon, Isle sur Sorgue, Gordes. Great wine cellar and can give you greart advice, he's on FRBV.

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

May I also suggest that you make a slight detour and have lunch at Restaurant Pic in Orange. You will have a fabulous meal. While there you could also visit and taste some Rhones at Chapoutier in Tain Hermitage.

Cheers Ron Lel

La Pyramide at Vienne is also back in fine shape.

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link

Looks nice. Thanks.

Nope. Hermitage is in Tain-L'Hermitage, located on the other side of Valence from Orange. It's about 70 miles away as the crow drives...

Mark Lipton

I believe that Beaune is the Capital of Burgundy.

-Cherie

Actually, Dijon is the capital.

Mike

Mike Tommasi, Six Fours, France email link