French wines for beginners

snipped-for-privacy@morganrothlaw.com (cherie) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:

Assuming that South of France means Provence you will be finding Cote du Rhone pretty much everywhere. For a basic CdR that is widely available in the US go for Jaboulet's Parallel 45, it is very consistent.

The top wines of the area are Chateauneuf de Pape. There are many available in a price range from 20-50's

Gigondas and Vacqueyras peppery wines with increasing amounts of grenache can be found in the 17-20 range (look for St. Cosme as the most available)

For whites Cote du Rhone blanc from Guigal is the best example I can think of.

Hello "cherie";

A few thoughts ... "cherie" skrev i meddelandet news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com...

You see, Southern France is quite a mouthful - it is rather _large_. My wife and myself spend 4-5 weeks in the Alpes-Maritime close to Nice each summer, and from there we have the possibility of reaching some small parts of the regions, but e g not Languedoc, nor the South West. We do visit the Northern RHone which might qualify as Southern France, thugh.

So it would help if you could specify where in the South you are going.

I agree with jcoulter, you might like the Cote du RHone wines, and of course the Chateauneuf-du-Pape. However, I´d also like to point you in the direction of the reds of Bandol, just West of Toulon. Big, muscular stuff with cellaring potential.

Some good wine is also made in the Luberon. We were very pleased with the reds from Ch Val-Ioannis, and also with their whites, which are made from local varietals, not Chardonnay.

If you are travelling Languedoc-Rousillon, you should look out for the wines from Pic-St-Loup and La Clape, and from the small AOC of St Chinian. Very good value for money, wines that are less austere than the big reds from Northern Rhone, but often centered around Syrah, Grenache, and Mourvedre.

While on the subject of Languedoc, don´t forget the stickies - Banyuls, Rivesalte, and the various Muscat versions. While a lot of these sweet, fortified wines can be a little pedestrian, some of them are excellent.

White wines in the South are not as a rule made from Chard (there are of course exceptions). Look rather for the interesting thing made from grapes like Viognier (coming along in the Languedoc and not seldom mixed with Chard), bourbolenc, grenache blanc ...

We will be in our summer apartment from c. June 10th to July 4th. Do not hesitate to contact me if we can be of any help or assitance.

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

Salut/Hi cherie,

le/on 17 Feb 2004 14:20:07 -0800, tu disais/you said:-

Hi,

This is really one for Mike Tommasi, who lives on the Mediterranean coast and knows the wines of the area very well. However, if you like californian wines, you will most probably enjoy the wines of the area. I'll wait for Mike, to see what he suggests, before coming back further.

"Nils Gustaf Lindgren" wrote in news:StDYb.83162$ snipped-for-privacy@newsc.telia.net:

Well, then there is the matter of Cote de Provence which also produces some nice things, I suppose the bottom line is drink what is local, it is a rule that has served me well everywhere but in Bolsena, Italy where the local white, Belvedere, was nearly undrinkable - but it did make Est Est Est look better!

St Chinian is one that I have found in N. Florida and I agree a very pleasant wine for a good price.

Thank you Nils and jcoulter, I can't wait to get started! Yes, I suppose my reference to the "South of France" is a bit vague. We are visiting quite a few areas, and I was trying to be brief (a tip from the "posting style guide---I've never posted a message before). Anyway, our trip starts with a few days in Paris, and then we are taking a wine-themed river cruise along the Rhone and the Saone which leaves from Lyon and travels throughout Macon, Burgundy, Vienne, Cotes du Rhone, Ardeche Valley, Viviers, Provence, Avignon, Marseille, and Arles. After the cruise, we will spend a few days in the Nice/Cannes area on our own. It's a little overwhelming and very exciting as we have never been to France or anywhere in Europe for that matter! And like I've said, we are wine lovers, but have no exposure to French wines. Thanks for the advice. -Cherie

Nils - any particular recommendations? I've often battled with the light body of the French wines as (as you know) I was weaned on big New World wines from the Southern Hemisphere. Recently I've been playing with some French Syrah, in particular from the Rhone area and have really been enjoying them - I find them a bit less "musky" or "peppery" to the SA/AUS style and a lot fruiter up-front. And I'm keen to try some good full-bodied French's in the £10-£20 price range.

A lot of good suggestions from both of you

I find southern viognier truly boring or slightly sickening, like mediocre muscat can be. OTOH grenache blanc has great potential, and some very nice wines.

Southern whites can be very fine wines.

Try the white from Chateau Mas Neuf in Costieres de Nimes, even better go there and meet Luc, knows a lot more than just wine...

For a special higher priced wine (but still under 40 Euro) white Grange des Peres is as rare as German Grenache, but nearby Mas de Daumas Gassac makes a great white, often criticized (the owner has a reputation for being highly obnoxious) but I maintain that it is a great wine.

Try the unique wines of Antoine Arena, vermentino to make an italian blush, and great muscat, not fortified. Most of his wines are vendange tardive.

Excellent white from Preceptorie de Centernach, I think it's called Terres Nouvelles or Terres Promises.

Aha, that means you are here for bouillabaisse (mid june) and we may do a neat food festival near Aix on the 4th of july.

Mike

I find that the ones you taste at the domaine taste nothing like the ones you take home... very technological wine, lacks in soul...

Sorry to be pessimistic, but living here, I find Cotes de Provence is mostly very mediocre. Even when it costs 20 Euro. There are exceptions, of course.

Mike

Domaine de Bongran at Quintaine

Domaine Sylvie Esmonin

Les Vins de Vienne, by Cuilleron, Gaillard, Villard.

Domaine Marcel Richaud, Domaine de Gramenon

Chateauneuf du Pape, try Domaine de la janasse, both colours.

Good wine bar, La Part des Anges, near the old port, and good wine shop, Caves Damiani, in the Capelette area.

Nice, go to the bistrot Vin sur Vin, great wine collection, stuff that has not yet made it to your part of the world, and it's a wine shop too. Go rummage in the cellar, you are allowed.

Also, wine shop La Part des Anges.

Mike

"Mike Tommasi" skrev i meddelandet news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com...

Never fear, we´ll be there!!!

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

"Michael Bartlett" skrev i meddelandet news:1077126886.121569@shiraz...

full-bodied

Duh, Michael, discussing bandols with Mike T around is ... like using a kangaroo stilt in a mine field, sort of ... he is without doubt the eminent authority around here on Southern France, not least the Bandols ... however: We always do a brisk business with St Anne Evenosc - taste their Cuv´ee Collection 98% Mourvedre, huge ... also the reds of Gros Noré (and M pascal who runs the place is ... a personality). I would, on the other hand, think twice about the rosés - the prices have risen steeply, and the QPR is no longer favorable ... There are others (Tour du Bon Temp, Lafran Veyrolle which our neighbour imports) but those two are my favorites. The reds from Bandol differs markeldy from many other Southern French wines in their focussing the Mourvedre which arguably never gets better than it does in Bandol. All reds are madfe with just three varietals - M, Grenache, and Cinsault, so no Syrah, and comparatively less wood than in some other districts. The whites are made from Ugni Blanc and Clairette, can be charming (St Anne makes some acceptable stuff) but prices are high, too high I feel.

I agree with Mike on the Cote de Provence wines - you can fill swimming pools with mediocre and anonymous alcoholic fluids of a wine-like nature ... ... apparently I hav ebeen in luck with the wines I tasted and bought home from Val-Ioannis ...

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

Mike Tommasi wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

I was thinking of a wine from IIRC Coteaux d'aix en Provence with a name like Dragon. It was however, as you say, a little pricy at the restaurant that was serving it.

snipped-for-privacy@morganrothlaw.com (cherie) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:

If your cruise stops in Tain l'Hermitage or across the river at Tournon you might want to stop in a the cave cooperative in Tain which has a large tasting room with an very expensive tasting menu.

Ah, but Coteaux d'Aix is already a step above, though I never heard of Dragon. Try Chateau Revelette.

Mike

And while in Tournon, try the restaurant Le Chaudron. On an average day you will meet at least two winemakers there...

Mike

Yes, Mike, the cruise does stop in Tain l'Heritage, and docks there overnight as well. Thank you for your suggestion regarding the cave cooperative. As far as Tournon, all I can determine from my brochure is that we take a train excurion through Tournon to the Ardeche region. By docking in Tain, will that bring us close enough to conveniently visit Le Chaudron for dinner? We also dock overnight in Lyon--any suggestions for wining and dining there? Or Cannes?--we will be visiting Cannes for three nights after the cruise.

Ah, this is wonderful. Thanks so much.

-Cherie

Wasn't me, but I agree. Try other local wines, Crozes hermitages by Graillot or by Domaine des Entrefaux

It's across the bridge. You can walk...

A memorable experience with an upcoming chef, Manuel Viron, and his Maison Borie, go now before the guides rate him (he will get a star, I bet), for now the price remains affordable at 50 Euro for the fixed menu. The restaurant itself is a work of art. Tremendous wine list.

Cannes and the Cote d'Azur are not my cup of tea, but I am told Palm Square is very good.

Mike

snipped-for-privacy@morganrothlaw.com (cherie) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@posting.google.com:

The Tain/Tournon area is very compact. My wife and I took a similar river trip two years ago, she took the train (steam train is a huge thing in Tournon the boilers or some important part were invented there) I walked across the bridge and came back with a case of wine form the Cooperative.

Mike is right though about other offerings. Tain may be the best wine stop on your tour (OK, you will have a side trip to Beaune but beware of what is offered on a tour) I whole heartedly endorse the Graillot, but it is hard to go wrong (well you should experience the cooperatives range of whites to know that not everything there is superior but the Crozes Hermitage is very good QPR and the St Joseph is nice, but if you are looking for a better qulaity there are the aforementioned by Mike as well as Jaboulet and Chapoutier for large houses.

You can walk the whole area easily.