Had the rare opportunity to have Garnacha and Cannonou the same night at the same dinner. I brought the Cannonou (Sella & Mosca); somone lese brought the Garnacha. these are supposed to be the same grape, but the wines were vastly different. The S&M Cannonou was much lighter in color, but considerably more intense. The Garnacha (it had a green label) was very dark in the glass, but rather less intense. The flavors were not at all alike. I don't see how these wines could be related at all.
Not only terroir, but viticulture and winemaking techniques come into play. Examples: canopy management, harvest timing, maceration time and temperature, fermentation regime, and barrel and aging decisions all affect the outcome to some degree.
Excellent answers to this question. Winemaking & growing styles greatly affect color, body, and flavor profile. I would add two more points. First, Cannonou is a clone of Grenache, and does have a more robust flavor profile (just as brunello is a variant of sangiovese. and zinfandel is a variant of primitivo)
Second, regardless of winemaking styles, there will always be a flavor fingerprint that identifies a varietal from other wines. For grenache, it is the aroma of garrigue (a smell akin to a handfull of dry provencal herbs).
Hmmm... As a lover of Grenache, I'm not sure that I'd say that garrigue is as essential a flavor element of the grape as the flavor of cherry liqueur (i.e., Kirsch) is. While many other grapes such as Merlot and Pinot Noir sport cherry flavors, none that I've ever encountered produces the same sense of concentrated, kirsch-like cherry that I routinely get in Grenache-based wines. One problem with statements like these, however, is that the region most closely associated with the finest expression of Grenache is the Southern Rhone Valley, but there it is nigh unto impossible to find Grenache bottled on its own without any Syrah, Mourvedre or Cinsault added. IIRC, Ch. Rayas is one of the few domaines to do a monocepage Grenache bottling and it's a bit too pricey for me to have made a thorough study of it ;-)
The grenache used in Chateauneuf is a clone too, and the spanish use their own clone, they remain the same variety of grape with only minor varietal differences.
I would say that this is not a varietal flavour (primary) but a result of terroir.
Fruit flavors are not considered to be distinct to a varietal, since they can be replicated in other varietals (Kirsh is not specific to grenache). Garrigue is specific to grenache, and not region-specific. Cannonou is considered to be a variant (not a clone) of grenache because it forked from the grenache "family tree" early on (possibly more than 1 millenia ago).
These wines tasted not at all alike. They could not have been more different. I much preferred the Cannonou (no surprise there). People keep telling me that I'm missing something by sticking with Italian wines. Well, here is a perfect esample of why I don't bother.
So you find garrigue in CA or Oz Grenache? I've never especially noticed that, and have found garrigue elements in Rhone/Provence wines that were mostly Syrah (like the Clavel La Copa Santa). Of course, aroma/flavor descriptors are to a degree personal. Welcome to AFW.
What about plums in Merlot? Gooseberries in sauvignon?
Taste a Tocai Rosso from Veneto (which is also grenache) (and BTW there are not many good ones) and there is not a trace of garrigue. I have not found much garrigue in cannonau either come to think of it.
Variant, clone, it is still grenache, anywhere you go in Europe that has a grenache tradition will have "forked" off several centuries ago...
Despite the presence of the forum's resident curmudgeon (of you don't know, you'll figure it out), this is a provocative and interesting thread.
As both a winemaker and lover of Rhone wines, I find it particularly intriguing. I'd like to make two comments;
I concur with Keith and WSOP in that Grenache carries with it a distinct varietal character; the smell of garrigue. Just as the methoxy-pyrazine unique to Sauvignon Blanc creates the 'grassy' character ('cat pee on a gooseberry bush'), so do certain compounds unique to Grenache create the unique garrigue character of Grenache dominated wines. It does, however, seem to be more pronounced in some Grenache than with others. While this may have somewhat to do with terroir, I suspect it has even more to do with canopy management. Just as New Zealand sauvignon blancs create aggressive, pronounced pyrazine character with their sophisticated canopy management practices, I suspect that some grenache can be made to be more or less garrigue notable.
As Ay Tee accurately pointed out, differing vineyard and vinification techniques can create two very different wines from the same, or similar, grapes. terroir, canopy management, harvest decisions, difffering fermentation technique (such as carbonic maceration), different yeast, differing use of oak, etc can all drastically change the way the wine will present to the drinker.
The point of all this - experiencing two radically differing wines from ostensibly close grapes in not at all unusual. Yes UC, even with Italian wines.
We recently acquired some Grenache-Syrah-Mataro (Mourvedre) blend from Australia - the 2003 Barossa Valley 'Juveniles' from Torbreck. According the the infamous critic from Maryland who shall not be named here, the wine is unoaked. Yet, to a palate inexperienced with Rhone wines, the impression can be one of being overoaked - because of the strong garrigue presence. The wine does a remarkable job of bringing together the classic characters of Rhone wines, with the big, intense fruit for which Australian wines are noted.
Forgive me if I point out that the Italian (Sardinian) wine was far superior and cost only $10 retail. Sell & Mosca do a bang-up job. It's not the grapes, but the Italian spirit that makes this wine so good.
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