Grenache

You bet it is. There are some fine ones from Spain and the Rhone just to mention a few.

Yes, it is (arguably) the principal red grape of the Southern Rhone Valley in France, most notably in the wines of Chateauneuf-du-Pape. In Spain, it's known as "Garnacha" and makes the readily available Sangre de Toro marketed by Torres. It's also known as "Cannonau" on Sardinia.

Be aware, though, that in France there's also a white sport of Grenache called Grenache blanc (white Grenache), but I doubt that that's what you're talking about (and it's a lot less common).

HTH Mark Lipton

Yep, it is. I have also seen White Mouvedre, White Cab. etc. All are low end wines.

When I go wine tasting around California very very few wineries have White anything available. Seems these products are made mostly by the big mass producers.

"JR" wrote .......

Jeff, broadly speaking, white wine can me made from "most" red grapes - it is the prolonged contact with the skin during the fermentation process which extracts the pigments from the grape skins which impart the colour to red wine.

Champagne is the opt quoted example - Pinot Noir (red) is one of the approved varieties used in Champagne.

The grapes are harvested and pressed - with the skins immediately separated - thus very little or no colour goes into the juice prior to fermentation.

Thus, white merlot; white cabernet; white grenache etc are possible.

We are always kind ;-)

While there is no such thing as a white merlot grape (but you CAN make white wine from red grapes, Chamagne being the prime example), there is such a thing as a white grenache grape. This is a semi-aromatic grape, very interesting, can give some surprisingly good results in southern french whites.

"Joe "Beppe"Rosenberg" skrev i melding news:kcednfISN-wbw9XZnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com...

Great! :-)

In fact, White Riesling is a name for the 'real' Riesling, like Weisser Riesling in Austria, and Riesling Bianco in Italy (afaik). On the other hand there is the 'Black Riesling' (Schwarzer Riesling) and even 'Red Riesling' (Roter Riesling) - both are dark skinned mutations of White Riesling (and give white wine). Adding to the confusion, there is also a Schwarzriesling ('Blackriesling') a local name (German, mainly in Wuertemberg) for the red Pinot Meunier grape!

:-) Anders

"JR" wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:

Grenache is the mostly planted vine planted in Spain (in a close match with a white grape called Airén) and, if memory serves, also in the world (but I am not sure, (bare with my ignorance). It is typical of different parts of Spain, including Rioja Baja where it goes into the blend with Tempranillo, Mazuelo (Carignan) and Graciano. It is the main grape of the great wines of Calatayud, Campo de Borja and so important in Cariñena.

It goes into the great Priorats (usually mixed with cariñena-carignan).

And there is a variety of Grenache which is white and not red. It is used in Priorat, Montsant and other surroundings to make oaked white wines. I think it goes into white rhones mixed with marsanne and roussane too, but I am not sure about that.

Best,

S.

White grenache is used in the white wines from Southern RHone with other varieties, though not marsanne, which is used in Northern RHone. Cheers Nils Gustaf

ahem. ahem....

ahem ahem what? Marsanne isn´t used in CdP [1] but rousanne is, right? Or ... wrong? And grenache blanc is used in CdP right? Or ... wrong? Soooooooo great sensei, what seems to be the matter .... ? Do I find my foot carefully and irretrievably stepped down in "it"?

BTW, and catching on to the Riesling daughter-thread, we just had the better part of a bottle of Peter Lehmann's Barossa Riesling, 2003, which I had bought oh 18 months ago? after rave reviews in Decanter. The first bottle opened just after purchase proved bland and uninteresting, but now it has come alive, with petroleum citrus, bit of fizz on the tip of the tongue, good extraction and length, and that great Riesling acidity - not racy elegant like a good German, but still .

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

You will find plenty of marsanne in the southern Rhone and Languedoc. But I understand why youthought that, one generally thinks of the northern rhone...

Logical.

I use Chato9 ;-)

To be precise, I thought of marsanne being off-limits in CdP, which I beleieve to be the case. Didn´t know they used it in Cote du Rhone - that they do in Languedoc comes as no big surprise - they use ANYTHING in Languedoc (and they succeed in it too!) (well - they succeed SOMETIMES). However, as for Languedoc, I didn´t imply that they didn´t - I implied that they didn´t in the Southern Rhone - which is kind of hard to grasp as I never atually said so.

Evidently, it has been a rotten week.

yep, but that only makes sense to you francophones ;) The "pune", or play on words, is intranslatable except to cognoscenti ;)))

Cheers matey-me-lad

Nils Gustaf

Er, now you got me thinking... marsanne I think is allowed in CdR, which between you and me is Cotes du Rhone, not Cotes du Rhin ;-)))

Ah, the dreaded grenache rhenano as they call it in parts of Italy [1]

Cheers

Nils Gustaf

That I knew, but, given the taste of (at least in my opinion) White Zinfandel, I figured that all of the "white" varieties were a) crappy and b) created for people who just couldn't take the body and "heaviness" of a red wine of the same grape.

Possible...OK...is there a "white cabernet" though?

OK, so, thanks to ALL of you for the great info...but, now I have to comment...before this discussion, I had NEVER seen Grenache on a bottle of wine before (but maybe I wasn't looking hard enough) and b) if the "white grenache" I saw in the ads (had to be a California BIG wine producer, after all, it was on a TV commercial, the red variety of grenache grapes, or the white varitety.

My guess. The red one, without the skins.

jeff

"JR" wrote in news:MNydnelulb6j4tTZnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:

Two red spanish wines from Grenache seem to be widely available in the United States: Borsao (my favorite is Borsao Tres Picos Garnacha) from D.O. Campo de Borja and Las Rocas de San Alejandro Viñas Viejas from D.O. Calatayud. And they are not expensive by today's standards.

and b)

To be precise, the red grapes vinified as white wine (not allowing contact between the juice and the skins after pressing).

S.

Just to clear this up. I know you guys know, but I found the exchange confusing, so:

Chateauneuf du Pape:

encepagement: grenache, syrah, mourvèdre, picpoul, terret noir, counoise, muscardin, vaccarèse, picardan, cinsault, clairette, roussane, bourboulenc.

This is the same for red and white. Note no marsanne or grenache blanc.

In the Cotes du Rhone white appellation:

Cépages principaux : grenache blanc, clairette blanche, marsanne blanche, roussane blanche, bourboulenc blanc, viognier blanc. Cépages secondaires : ugni blanc, picpoul blanc.

So, both grenache blanc and marsanne (blanche -- is there any other?) are allowed as principal varietals (80% or more) in the southern rhone.

For the record and if anyone cares, for CdR red and rosé:

Cépages principaux : grenache noir, syrah noire, mourvèdre noir.

South of Montelimar grenache noir must be > 40%.

Cépages secondaires : carignan noir, cinsaut noir, counoise noire, muscardin noir, camarèse noir, vaccarèse noir, picpoul noir, terret noir, grenache gris, clairette rose.

The secondary varietals combined cannot represent more than 30%.

Here's my question: why the heck is "grenache" masculin, anyway? Is that so in spanish too?

-E