Sacramental Wine

That is very interesting indeed. The Christian Brothers produce a lot of different wine under the Mont La Salle label with such names as Burgundy, Chablis, Sauterne, Tokay and Port and it is sold out side the US. I found a Canadian advertisement for it. However it is only sold to clergy so I guess that exempts it from the naming rules. Or does it? The Christian Brothers are all around the world to I would assume that they ship this to their own locations at least. This is some of our good Central Valley bulk wine. Competes with with Wild Irish Rose, Night Train and Thunderbird.

Salut/Hi Vino,

le/on Sun, 09 May 2004 00:51:05 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

Factually? No idea. However it sounds very much like the liquids sold as "Tokay" in the Rutherglen area of Australia, though some of these are very agreeable as wine.

Apart from the fact that it's yet another example of US names using European area names as if they were generic, possibly not. It may not be illegal in the USA, but I would argue that it ought to be. Just as I would argue that it ought to be illegal (and probably is) in Europe to use the name "Napa Valley" for - say - Zinfandel.

Very sensible, as transubstantiationalists would probably regard it as blasphemous! Actually, I think the blasphemy - if it be such - is more in using a morally reprehensible name for something that is destined for a holy purpose.

Any special requirements for Episcopal wine? I don't guess it has to be Kosher! However could the wine just as well be Morgan David concord grape or box wine and be OK for church?

Only beer is legal to purchase in the county where I live in Mississippi. That why they have a wall and a border checkpoint at the next country which has all the booze. This keeps our children free from the evil grape just as well as it works for crack, cannabis, tobacco, condoms, and other various and sundry moral temptations. So far the local Priest has not been busted for bootlegging!

Ian Hoare wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

Oh dear! that is a bit of a problem isn't it? Better to stick to lambasting Christ's tears (Lacryma Christi) than any other more substantial portions.

At one time in the US, "Tokay", "Port", "Sherry", and "Angelica" were fortified wines made from just about any cheap grape available. Before Thunderbird and such came along, the cheapest versions of the mentioned wines were often associated with street bums, because they offered the cheapest drunk available. The high sugar content even had a little food value, although very unbalanced. There were a few drinkable wines with the mentioned names made that sold at a higher price, but all of the cheap, nasty wine sold under these names did not help sell the few drinkable examples.

??? Now you have confused me, Ian. Are you saying that someone in Europe who produced Zinfandel there should not call it "Napa Valley" or "Napa Valley Zinfandel"? Either is a bit unlikely I'd say. Do Europeans even grow something sold as Zinfandel, or could that now be considered to be a California proprietary name?

LOL! Good one. :^D

Actually, I think the blasphemy - if it be such - is more in

Blasphemy requires deliberate intent to blaspheme, which is a very high standard to obtain. I doubt that the average parish priest is at all aware of the European sensitivity about use of their place names in such fashion, so this doesn't count as blasphemy. Those who are (aware) probably consider it a very venial matter indeed, and not at all relevant to whether wine thusly labeled should be consecrated. The overriding consideration is whether the wine in question _tastes_ good enough to be worthy of consecration.

Tom S

The Italians are producing a wine labeled Zinfandel that is exported to the US. I have no idea if they are selling it in the EU. Maybe they are competing with Gallo White Zinfandel which is sold in the EU.

"Tom S" skrev i melding news:dusnc.65504$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr25.news.prodigy.com...

Zinfandel is a grape and as such could be grown anywhere. What should be illegal is 'Napa' which is not anywhere in Europe. Anders

Salut/Hi Tom S,

le/on Sun, 09 May 2004 15:53:45 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

Sorry about that, Tom.

call it "Napa Valley" or "Napa

Primarily the former, because Napa Valley is a geographical entity in the USA, and as such it should not be used as if it were a wine type. If someone in Europe used clones of Californian Zin and made a good wine from it, I don't really see that they should - or could - be prevented from calling it Zinfandel.

I'd certainly hope so, though calling a European Zin "Napa Valley" is exactly parallel to calling an Alsace Pinot Gris "Tokay" or a Californian Altar wine "Tokay" (extending the argument to Champagne, Burgundy, and all the rest of the wines to which I've referred ad nauseam).

I believe so, though I've not seen it.

Does it? I didn't know that. I wonder if that's the same everywhere.

I think the Italians have grapes that they call Primivito in the vineyards but label the wine Zinfandel to market it in the US. I was not talking about legalities just marketing.

When the US FDA allowed the interchangeability of "zinfandel" and "primitivo" based on the DNA near-identicality of the two grapes the Italians began legally to label what had been only allowed to be called "primitivo" as "zinfandel" for importation into the US. There are now "Primitivo" wines from California, and "Zinfandel" from Italy and (of course) Australia, to name just two of them.

pavane

Heh. Probably not in Moslem countries. Just look what they tried to do to Salman Rushdie for merely writing a novel!

Tom S

I'll not argue with you on this one.

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

Reminds me of a comment made by an Episcopal priest regarding the bread often served with the wine: "I never had any trouble believing that it was the body of Christ. I just had trouble believing it was bread".

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

AFAIK, any wine is OK. Which makes me wonder what the "approved for sacramental use" means on the label I referred to in my original posting. Approved by who? Remember, I'm talking about Episcopalians purchasing wine from a Roman Catholic supply store.

I grew up in Mississippi when the sale of any kind of alcoholic beverage (except beer in some counties) was illegal. That didn't mean that it was not available. It just meant that it cost more than it would have otherwise. The whole arrangement made the bootleggers and Baptist preachers happy because the former raked in the cash and the latter could brag to their congregations about what they had accomplished.

Do I detect a note of cynicism in your posting?

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

Yes. I have seen an Italian Zinfandel here in Austria (don't remember name/producer, but it wasn't bad), and one Austrian grower (Forstreiter in Krems) produced his first vintage in 2001 (rubbish, imnsho, he should stick to Riesling and Grüner Veltliner where he's much better).

M.

Salut/Hi Vino,

le/on Mon, 10 May 2004 02:53:58 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

I know you don't, Vino, and in fact I think most of us on this NG are in more or less complete agreement. We may not agree 100% on the level to which consumers are deceived (or if they are at all), we may not agree 100% on whether _today_ winemakers (ab)using geographical names do so with deliberate intent to deceive, but I think that pretty well everyone agrees that it would be better if wines were sold under their _own_ merits.

Salut/Hi Michael Pronay,

le/on 10 May 2004 06:03:38 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

Thanks for confirming that.

much better).

Chuckle. From what I've seen of the grape, it needs a LOT of sun, so perhaps even in Krems, the grape is underexposed. Of course it could also be a simple matter of young vines too.

There's actually a sidebar in this month's Saveur about the primary wine the Vatican uses (though they apparently accept gifts from winemakers worldwide). Sorry I don't recall exact details (Betsy's mag, not mine).

Actually this issue is wine-oriented. Articles on the Veneto, Rhone (visit to the Chaves), Sinskey, & Rioja; plus many smaller articles. A good essay on RP & points.

I don't think I convinced Betsy to do Gerard Chave's recipe for calves feet salad, or the Riojan stew with lamb offal. But she is going to try M. Chave's stuffed Bresse chicken (we'll use the best bird we can find,as Bresse birds are unavailable). The recipe she wanted to try was beef braised in Amarone. It uses an entire bottle of Amarone, when I explained the cost she relented. I might suggest she make with a bottle of Masi Campofiorin, what do you guys think? Dale

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