OT: When the restaurant is a cheat

Wow, Dale, that's quite a tale. I do usually check the bill (at least cursorily) and usually have a good "rough estimate" even before that. I can't think of an instance where a restaurant has overcharged me in the way that you describe, though I have occasionally pointed out to the staff that we were charged for a coffee, dessert or other dish that never actually arrived (easily dismissed as an honest mistake, though). I completely sympathize with your plight, though. In a group with people I'm not terribly familiar with, I don't want to look like a rube by poring over the dinner bill.

I wonder what your legal grounds are for recovering your money now. You did pay the bill and sign, which does imply some sort of agreement, I think. I suppose, though, that this is close to a consumer fraud case since it looks a lot like a bait-and-switch tactic (especially since a similar tale is published on Zagat's website). Good luck in getting your money back... and add your own story to Zagat's site, too, if you can. The more people forewarned about this scam, the more likely it is that they either change their practices or lose a lot of business.

At most honest restaurants the errors seem to be about evenly split. In last few months I have pointed out errors in both directions (an agreed upon corkage charge they forgot to charge me, and a side dish that never arrived). Lots of errors with sides. They are ordered, on bill, and one needs to point out they never arrived (I always tend to notice after we already are well into main, who wants green beans or broccoli rabe as dessert?).

I have to believe management/owners are part of this. This is a restaurant that has been around at least 15 years, hard to believe that ownership would use the scribbled handwritten bill method rather than a modern POS system unless they want to take advantage. Even an adding machine tape would lessen the chance of mischief.

In addition to disputing charge, I intend to send letters to the BBB and the NYS AG Consumer Fraud office. And relate my experience on Zagat, Chowhound, eGullet, and the forum for the local paper.

Amex seemed to have no problem with my disputing $54 of charge. I'm not disputing I signed bill, but whether I was acccurately charged.

As a separate issue, I also think it's quite important to keep cc receipts with tip written in. I've had that issue twice where a waiter added to their own tip. Last time server made my $18 tip (20% tip on $90)$48 by crossing the 1 on tip line, and just writing a 3 over the 0 on total. When cc bill arrived I called restaurant, they were livid and apologized, hopefully waitrss fired I do confess to on at least one occasion realizing next day that I had tipped less than intended (too much wine?) and calling to authorize restaurant to adjust bill.

Outrageous.

Yes, I do check the bill - both to ensure that we only pay for what was ordered, but also to double check prices and arithmetic. And I've seen numerous errors - but nothing so outrageous as what you describe.

Based on that Zaggat's review, seems like this is a practice, not a mistake. And that practice seems criminal to my humble opinion. Other than for a fixed price menu, providing an itemized receipt is (again, my opinion) an absolute. Even the finest restaurants in the world do so. Most business require them for expense purposes).

DaleW wrote in news:1188155320.763191.196290 @y42g2000hsy.googlegroups.com:

Call me cheap, I always check the math. I substitute regularly at a local high school and am well aware of the math skills of my pupils. Yes the calculator works, but only as well as the operator and most kids these days have no idea how to estimate a bill, they literally do not know if the math is right or not.-then there are the scammers, the ones who do, well either way, I add it up.

My dad's an accountant and when I was a kid, before restaurants used computers, he'd routinely take a quick glance at the bill and more than half the time we'd have been overcharged... until he pointed it out.

With that in my family background I always look at the bill-- when they're computer-generated (almost all of the time here in NYC) there's rarely a mistake although on occasion they've put someone else's order on our bill.

On the rare occasion when the bill's done by hand I find that often there's a mistake. Which is why I do always look at it.

Shaun Eli

On my birthday last March (I have the gross misfortune of being born on a holiday) I had frosting on the cake - it also fell on a Saturday nite! Our favorite French/Vietnamese fusion restaurant was packed and people were waiting in the anteroom for a table. To make matters worse, the Interstate that I took to get there was blocked off with perpetual construction and I managed to get lost which made me arrive 10 minutes late for my reservation. For me, arriving late is unthinkable, as I always start out for any appointment so early that people make fun of me. They had held my table, even though others were waiting.

The service was not as "relaxed" as usual, but I could understand the strain that they were working under. I had brought my own wine, and accepted that I would have to pay corkage. When we finished, I managed to attract the attention of our waitress and asked for the check. A few minutes later, she sailed by, plunked down a check and flew off to another table. I turned over the bill, saw the amount, and my eyes popped out. I couldn't have eaten that much or drunk that much! Then, I went through the itemized list, and saw six appetizers, six entrees and two bottles of wine! The bill belonged to another table! After I got my own bill, all was right in the world again. ;-)

Godzilla

Part of this was ego. I'm pretty good at having a rough idea with a smaller party. But check arrived and other folks asked how to split with tip. At a bigger dinner I was less conscious of what others (not my family) were ordering. And splitting the check evenly made it less obvious what it was per person. And, being a typical male, there was a part of me that didn't want to seem I was trying to squirm out of paying (or pushing for a 3/7 split, I wanted to pay half as it was 2 families). By time we were in car, I was thinking "how did that happen?" Without the coffees the food part was $300, if desserts were $10 that left $40 per person. I knew our part of the food was less, but I wanted to check what the prices were on other family's dishes.

I can't remember the last time I was in a real restaurant (as opposed to a diner) and didn't get at least an adding machine tape- and as you note 99% of the time an itemized bill.

I have two stories.

A few years ago, we went with my wife's family to dinner, taking out my mother in law. There were about 12 of us. I was handed the bill, figured out our share, and passed it to my brother in law. He looked it over and said, "ok, who had the 56 cups of coffee?"

Even the calculator can lie! I loved it when they started giving a calculator tape with the bill, but I always check to see that the register has been "zeroed" There can be a number left in the calculator when the tape is started so it doesn't show up on the tape, but it is in the total.

When DH & I order, I get a mental picture of what the bill will be. Then I will roughly calculate the tip & tax to be about 30% more. When they set the check down I turn it over quickly and look at the bottom figure; if the bill is $20 more than what I have had in my mind, then I will ask DH to check it.

It's very easy for them to mistakenly add another party's desserts or wines, so it's best to check because these are the things that add up. Dee Dee

Dee Dee

Even the calculator can lie! I loved it when they started giving a calculator tape with the bill, but I always check to see that the register has been "zeroed" There can be a number left in the calculator when the tape is started so it doesn't show up on the tape, but it is in the total.

If you paid using a card, you can just call your credit card company and stop the payment on the grounds of being overcharged if they don't want to play ball. I've had to do this a few times with tea purchases over the internet when I lived in the US.

I agree. American Express is just about the best for doing this for their customers. Dee Dee

Yes, I called Amex and verified no chargeback, placed the $54 (not whole charge) in dispute last week. I think other family is doing same. I also posted story to Chowhound, Egullet, and Zagat (under previous threads re restaurant). Next up- NY AG Consumer Fraud office. :)

It is very hard to believe a restaurant today using hand written checks for any reason other than skimming and graft. Modern POS systems not only present a legible check to the customer and kitchen but perform credit card, accounting and control functions for the restaurant as well. Handwritten checks and refusal to itemize is a huge red flag.

Mark (restaurant worker)

The IRS is not a happy camper with hand written bills in a restaurant with any decent sized clientele and the state of Virginia bans it for a particular volume of customers as they cannot track sales tax.