Question for the group about Bouillabaisse

"not4wood" skrev i meddelandet news:3f9179d6 snipped-for-privacy@news1.prserv.net...

Hello Mark; Since some time has gone by sinc eyou posted your enquiry and more "senior" group members have not commented, I would like to tell you that the best thing to drink with a bouillabaisse is a good Provence or Bandol Rosé.

NEXT problem: where you can find these rare and precious animals in your neighbourhood is, as they say, left as an exercise for the student ... ;) It has never been reported that the US is teeming with good, Southern French, Rosés.

Nor, for that matter, is Southern France. BAD Rosés, is however, a brid of a totally differnet feather and can be found in prodigous amounts.

HTH - HAND

and Cheers!

Nils Gustaf

Well, aromatic whites or good rosés are generally considered a good match with bouillabaise. Some specifics might be white Hermitage or Beaucastel VV Roussanne, or a rosé from Bandol or Tavel. I should add that if your bouillabaise includes tomato (as some recipes do) that all bets are off...

Mark Lipton

Thanks guys,

First, yes the soup or broth is a tomato based semi-spicy. The most important to me is that my wife likes Rose'. I do not, too sweat and perfume for my taste. Hmmmm I'll probably try the Hermitage.

Mark Not4wood

Wow, an extremely hard to find $100 bottle of Beaucastel to match up with fish soup! I think might suggest something a bit more afordable than that. As far as roses go I don't think you have neccesarilly go with a Bandol...though they are very good. Bouillibasse seems to be a soup popular all along the seaboard and I've had it with a Costieres de Nimes, a Coteaux de Languedoc, a Faugeres, a Tavel... well, you get the idea...basically a dry pink southern French wine is what is really great with this soup.

Marc mentioned aromatic whites, I have not had it with Boullibasse but imagine it would be quite nice--I would suggest looking to the some of the same Rhone/Languedoc regions and trying to find some sort of a blend with Roussane, Marsanne, or Viognier in it. Now it won't say this on the bottle neccessarily so I'd consult with the wine shop person for help here. For starters many Cote-du-Rhone whites likely have one of these as part of the blend and could be a good choice to look at first as they are quite common. My recommendation, as an example of this type of wine which would also be of same grape as the aforementioned Beaucastel VV, I would offer for your consideration you a Costieres de Nimes- Chateau de Nages- Cuvee Joseph Torre. This is also 100% Roussane and would be an aromatic wine that should go well with the fish...this also goes for under $20. This may not be available in your area so I can only suggest seeing what is out there in this style...

Regards M.Leduc

Michel, calling bouillabaise "fish soup" also does injustice to one of the world's great culinary treats. Granted, I have had the pleasure of having The Real Deal™ (in a howling Mistral) courtesy of Slow Food Provence -- but the point that I was making is that this is a dish that invites using a very fine white wine of a certain sort. Power and aromatics are desirable to match with the complexity and richness of the dish itself. However, now that the OP has revealed that the broth will have a significant component of tomatoes, I retract my original suggestions aside from the rosé or a nice white wine from Cassis or the Languedoc if he can find it.

Mark Lipton

I can't speak for the more informed, but good Sake might be just the thing for this dish. Serve slightly chilled - not heated. Heating is only for cheap Sake.

Tom S

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Hmmmm...my first experience was sitting in a cafe on the Promenade Anglais in Nice--piling the gruyere high as I could upon the carefully aioli spread crouton--dunking it until it was soft. Yes it was great, but It hardly warrants a Beaucastel VV Rousanne in my view, I had that on my birthday with a seafood tasting menu...an incredible wine for a special occasion. To me bouillabase seems more down to earth and workaday than that. I'm not arguing that it wouldn't work, no doubt it would be great-- so maybe it is just budgets we are arguing about...

DealT (in a howling

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itself. However, now

Mark,

OK I've been watching all the posts and first I'd like to thank all of you for your input. Now you got my curiosity up. I'm going to have to do research in my area to find the white aromatics. Cassis or the Languedoc. I have not had the pleasure of tasting either one of these but I will try to search them out and try one on this special night.

Bouillabaisse is not something to be taken lightly and in the New York area its really hard to come by. We have a small French Mediterranean family owned restaurant. The Master is French trained and is always trying new things to keep you guessing. They have a few invitation only special events and the bouillabaisse night is one of them It wasn't so much as to price but what would really do justice to the honor of bouillabaisse. In a previous post someone called this a fish soup. You should find out and try this very special approach to a sea food delight if you eat any kind of sea food at all. You are missing one of life's real pleasures and finding a wine to go with this pleasure would be a real treat. Again, thank you all for your input and I will see what I can get and bring to this magical food experience.

Mark Not4wood

Since when is Cassis white? Does that refer to something other than the red berry that makes such excellent dessert liqueur?

I agree completely. There happens to be an old restaurant in Hollywood, CA that serves _great_ bouillabaisse on Fridays. If you're ever visiting Los Angeles on a Friday, be sure to try the special at Musso & Frank's. Actually, all their food is good. The place is a landmark institution, and most of the waiters have been there for 30+years.

Tom S

In addition to the blackcurrant liqueur, the word "Cassis" also refers to a Southern French (I think actually Provencal, though I couldn't swear to it) appelation. I assume it's a town, commune, or some other geographic area. Think it uses similar grapes to Southern Rhone whites. Dale

Dale Williams Drop "damnspam" to reply

Also bear in mind that you don't pronounce the "s" in Cassis wine. Yes, it is in Provence, both in the modern administrative sense and also in the pre-revolution true sense of Provence. There are reds and roses, but the whites are the only good ones, and a couple of producers at that (Sainte MAgdeleine, Bodin, and my favourite Paternel). Grapes are marsanne, ugni, clairette. Goes with mediterranean fish.

IMHO the best match for bouillabaisse is a rose with some extra body, like the ones of Domaine de Terrebrune in Bandol AOC. Or some of those atypical roses coming out of Languedoc, like Domaine Henry.

Another comment, as I have been reading this thread with great pleasure, some excellent comments have been already made and I am just oppportunistically adding the last bit... Remember that a bouillabaisse is simple fare, and beware of any great chef putting his hand to it. Any sign of the presence of lobster and other luxury things is not a good thing. I am not saying that you are not allowed to be creative, just remember that it comes from an old tradition revolving arould discarded fish. Beware also of myth. It is neither Marseillais nor from Sete, but evolved all around this area, with variations all along the coast, from Valencia to Livorno (it changes name too!). It was never made with sea water (it would be inedible, think about it!).

Enjoy it

Mike

Ah, so it's pronounced "Cai"? ;^)

S moT

Salut/Hi Tom S,

le/on Thu, 23 Oct 2003 05:29:02 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

Silly billy.

You left out the glo''al stop.

Ca''i

only what Mike really _meant to say, as you very well know from the number of kir cassis I've offered you, is that in French the general rule is that the final letter isn't pronounced. So Argentat (near where we live) sounds a bit like Ahjonta. (The 'g' being softened by the e following it.). But the south being the south, Forgès (because it has the grave accent over the 'e', emphasizes the final syllable, which means the 's' IS pronounced. thus Forjez is about it. If it didn't have the accent, the final s wouldn't be pronounced as is the case in the 11 other Forges in the country and THEY are pronounced forje.

And (venturing into territory best left to others in this group) I'll add that the rules you've cited apply only to _French_ names, so that in the South (where we find the town of Cassis, BTW) the rules of Provençal may apply and we end up pronouncing the terminal consonant -- thereby providing merriment to the locals who get to listen to flustered tourists butchering the regional names.

Mark Lipton

I see, was that apoplectic actor Louis de Funes from the south, btw? I remember being surprised by how to pronounce his name! Anders

Salut/Hi Anders Tørneskog,

le/on Thu, 23 Oct 2003 19:33:47 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

D'you know, I've no idea. But certainly the pronunciation of his name is entirely consistent with that. However, just as in English, the pronunciation of proper names follows no known rules. Cholmondley (chumley) Worcestershire (wooster) to take but two examples! And to bring it on topic there's Cockburn (port) - pronounced coburn - chuckle.

And to stay on topic: Cos ("coss"), Auxerre ("ohsser"), Fixin ("fissae"), Estournel ("estournel"). Otoh, both t's in Montrachet are silent.

M.