Re: icewine is trademarked

VQA means?

See

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The requirements are that the grapes be Canadian and the winemaking be up to a set standard.

This does not of course ensure a quality product, and many of the small producers who produce the highest quality wines opt out as they sell all they make anyway, and have no need to pay the dues required to be a VQA member.

Reply to
Bill Spohn
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Salut/Hi Bill Spohn,

le/on 01 Apr 2004 00:05:10 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

Thanks for an intelligent and intelligible answer!

Reply to
Ian Hoare

Check out this article on Icewine. Both the terms "Icewine" note spelling not Ice wine, and Eiswein are trademarked in Germany and Canada. Both countries agreed in principal. What is really boils down to is to prevent producers from making Icewine/Eiswein in the freezer. The whole debate continues to carry on, and if you check (I don't have time) you will find, I believe, that the practice of natrually frozen production has been adapted by the US body looking after alcohol, the one that has replaced the ATF. Perhaps an American Vintner could shed some light on this. Article

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Reply to
Dave Gimbel

First of all, if you don't have time to check on something, then you shouldn't even post it as a belief. Just say you're not sure and invite others to comment. Secondly, in the US, there is no law or regulation (at least at the federal level) that prevents a winery from making wine from artificially frozen grapes and labelling the result Ice Wine. There has been some discussion at the ATTTB about changing this but, AFAIK, nothing has been done about it.

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

Reply to
Vino

Apparently I must stand corrected. I based my post on information obtained from an individual I have always considered reliable. In this case he apparently wasn't. I nosed around on the TTB site and came up with the following:

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This appears to be the regulation referred to in the press release attached to Dave's note. I try to keep up with such things but it seems I missed this one.

One curious thing is that the regulation refers to "partial freezing of the grapes on the vine". I can't quite figure out what this means. In any case, I was in error and will concede that.

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

Reply to
Vino

Salut/Hi Vino,

I hesitate to jump in again here,

le/on Thu, 01 Apr 2004 22:53:27 GMT, tu disais/you said:-

Well, if you think about it, when freezing grapes with pretty high sugar content (as in grapes left until it's cold enough to freeze them), the freezing process starts with the production of crystals of pure water, thereby concentrating the remaining juice even further. (This is standard physical chemistry and is the basis of cryo-extraction). This process will continue, with ever stronger sugar solution being produced in the grape, until a constant freezing mixture is arrived at. At this concentration, a mixture of sugar and water (simplifying impossibly) will start to freeze out, until the whole contents of the grape is frozen solid. But there's little point in seeking to press something that's frozen entirely solid, as nothing will run out until it warms up.

So in actual FACT, when making icewine you don't press grapes that are frozen entirely solid, but ones that are strictly, only partially frozen, with part of the water unable to be pressed out, because it's still ice. Hence the expression.

At least, that's MY interpretation of what's going on.

Reply to
Ian Hoare

Excuse this ignorant Antipodean.....

Does having certification from the US ATF mean that, not only do the grapes have to be "naturally frozen" they must be harvested by gun toting smokers to bear the name "Icewinesmokem & shoot'em"?

It's just a thought !

asama bin125 o' st.helier

Reply to
st.helier

I suspect you're right. The same thought occurred to me after I did the posting.

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

Reply to
Vino

Which is 100% correct, of course.

M.

Reply to
Michael Pronay

Reply to
Dave Gimbel

What you are citing is called anecdotal evidence which, although sometimes useful, cannot be used to substantiate any general conclusions. Indeed, if the experience you describe were typical, little or no icewine would ever be made. It would simply not be commercially feasible.

Ian provided what I consider to be a very plausible explanation of what the term "partially frozen" means. A subsequent poster whose expertise I have come to respect confirmed Ian's suggestion.

Do you have any other explanation for what "partially frozen" means? I'm always open to differing opinions if they are supported by reliable evidence.

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

Reply to
Vino

What appears to be the applicable US regulation regarding the use of the term "ice wine" on a label (see my earlier post in this thread) suggests that such wine is normally made from grapes that are "partially frozen" when harvested. Combined with your suggestion as to what that term means, then the US regulations appear to require the use of a technique that produces inferior wines. Something is wrong with this picture.

There comes a time when one must bow out of a thread whose level of discourse has deteriorated to the point where no more intelligent discourse can take place. That time has come for me in this thread.

Vino To reply, add "x" between letters and numbers of e-mail address.

Reply to
Vino

SOMETHING IS INDEED WRONG WITH THE PICTURE. When I see posts in this NG given by people that are in error, I like many others try to correct the post or refer an article or link with the the correct information. In the reference to Icewine (NOT ICE WINE) there seems to be a misconception in the US that much of the production here in Canada is made in the freezer. I know where that misconception comes from however not to offend anyone I won't comment. If the US regulation wants to use the term "partially frozen grapes" so be it. We choose not to. That is why I posted the regulation.When the US becomes the world's largest producer of Icewine than we here will step back and see what we are doing wrong. Some of the North Eastern States are becoming fine producers of Icewine, done the natural way. Many of the vintners have looked to Ontario for assistance. My final question to you b4 I to bow out is, How many bottles of Icewine have you made?

Reply to
Dave Gimbel

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