Tannins from skins?

This isn't exactly a rec.crafts.brewing topic...

And why exactly is that? Grape tannins are used in brewing for mead, bear, cider etc etc etc as well as wine. Thanks for making a pretty pointless post.

You're the first person I've ever heard suggest using grape skins to add tannin to beer. Most brewers I've spoken to try to *avoid* extracting tannins.

rec.crafts.winemaking is a group that is full of winemakers, and rec.crafts.meadmaking is full of mead makers.

Sorry if that is hard to follow.

Calm down guys, it seems like both of you are reading only part of the post.

Poster says "homebrewing" in the original posts which probably confused the issue. But second sentence says

"Seems a better way to add tannins to concentrate wine kits then adding powdered grape tannins."

Note the add tannins to concentrate WINE KITS.

Now my answer. I have never found a source for grape skins. I would imagine if there was they would have to be dried (or freeze dried) since they would spoil very quickly. Dried skins would quickly grumble and thus you would end up with a coarse powder anyway.

You might want to check with a winery on crush day and see if you could scoot out with some of the pressings...

Tom

What about buying some table grapes from the store, white or red, pressing them for juice which could be drunk or used for wine, and adding the skins to the must. I am not sure what it would do to the flavor of the kit, that would depend on the kit as well. But then any skins are going to change the kit and I guess that is what you are after.

Just a thought. If people make decent wine out of frozen grape concentrate from the store, why not fresh grapes.

Ray

In my experience, there isn't a lot of tannin in table grapes, so I doubt there would be a significant amount left after a press. I think the flavour (of a kit) would change for the worse.

concentrate

They do. Frozen grape concentrate is usually Concord juice, which does make a good wine. Table grapes sold in stores are usually Thompson (green) or a variety of Ruby (red). Occasionally you will see black Midnight Beauty's. A reasonable wine can be made from any of these (with sugar addition and acid correction), and occasionally the grapes will be outstanding and make a really good wine. It's important to taste the grapes before purchasing, as quality can vary substantially. There isn't much colour in the skins of the reds, so they produce a blush wine. The MB's produce a Concord-like colour, but much lighter flavour. Even so, they will produce a second run almost indistinguishable from the first. I wait for table grapes to go on sale, and then buy a few cases for winemaking.

Actually grape skins are reprocessed to make natural food colourings as well as nutraceuticals. They can be freeze dried very easily and retain the full depth of colour when extracted into other foods. The skins and seeds are worth a lot of $$$ to a streetwise vineyard.

So why are you interested in increasing the tannin content of a wine kit? Are you buying four-week kits for economy, and expecting filet mignon from a chuck steak?

You might not believe the difference in quality of an eight week kit until somebody hands you a bottle, and then you will never go back to the others...and the price is FAR more than worth it.

Actually no I just really like wines that are VERY VERY heavy in tannins, CellarCrafts kits with the crushed grapes are the only 8 week kits that seem to be able to provide it. I was looking to push a

8 week juice kit to that level, unless someone knows a good source for these kits in the US? Or would grocery store grape skins or maybe even raisins be able to push a juice kit's tannin level up?

My God you guys!!!!

You can purchase skins from Mosti Mondiale. The skins come from the processing of their juices, fresh and sterile.

This year though, I purchased 1 case of grapes, crushed and added to their fresh juices. You can do the same for the kit.

After pressing I freeze them and use them again the following year. Yes I still extract tannin on re-processing. Remember that the tannin is extracted mainly by contact with alcohol and this occurs as the fermentation is close to completion. That is on the 5th to 7th day.

There is not harm in allowing additional contact with the skins for a few additional days.

However, taste your wine as you may get more tannin in there than you might have bargained for.

Regards,

Peter

what about elderberries? dried elderberries? they are very high in tannins... wouldn't a small dose of elderberries add a sufficient amount of tannins?

just a thought. Rick

Good choice. Elderberry juice is very often added to those tins for a gallon of (unspecified) red wine. Does wonders for the fermentation speed as well. I guess 10% (fresh) is acceptable for fruit wines, don't know for grape wines.

Rene.